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PUBLIC TRUST DOCTRINE-SHORE MANAGEMENT PUBLIC FISHING RIGHTS
To voice your opinion about Shoreham Beach Access closure to fishermen email at this link:Nor'East Saltwater Discussion Board about Shoreham BeachResults of the 10/3/2008 Brookhaven Town Meetinghttp://www.noreast.com/discussion/ViewTopic.cfm?page=1&startrow=1&topic_ID=117674On Line Petition:
This is priceless!
A SHOREHAM FISHERMAN SPEAKS OUT ![]()
BELOW IS A LOG OF EMAIL ABOUT THE SHOREHAM ISSUE STARTING WITH THE LAST CORRESPONDENCE , ENDING WITH THE FIRST BACK IN APRIL OF 2008:
6/30 late PM-
As you all know we ran into some set backs with the opening of Shoreham beach. However a short while ago the Town of Brookhaven Parks Commissioner Eddie Morris called and informed me that Shoreham beach is infact open for fishing to both residents and non residents during the daytime. The beach has been added to the night fishing permit as well. He sounded very sincere and apologized to me about the blunder which occurred over this past weekend. I explained to Eddie that life guards were turning people away from the beach that were in possession of fishing gear, and they they were warning people that they had specific instructions to call Code Enforcement if anyone was to attempt to fish from the beach. He once again apologized to me and stated that none of that should have ever happened. When I asked him when can we expect to have the booth manned and open at 5am he told me that it should be open at 5 tomorrow morning. He also informed me that the stickers are not ready yet, however the attendants will be checking peoples identification and granting them access. If there any issues he welcomed me to call him anytime so he can take care of it right away. Hopefully this will be the end of any major issues over there. If there are any kinks along the way we will work through them as well. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me anytime. Last but not least thank you to all of you for your support. Issues like this would not be overcome without all of your support.
Thank You,
Tom Farrell
Secretary - New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
631-840-7199
6/30PM-
I sent Matt to Shoreham beach to find out what is going on. He said he spoke to a young kid at the gate and was told he was given instructions to let in fishermen, residents and non residents, in until 9 PM. he didn't know if the beach opened at 5 AM, or anything about the night fishing permit
6/30-
As many of you already know, we have once again run into a hurdle over at Shoreham Beach. The beach did not open for fisherman as scheduled like we were told by Supervisor Mark Lesko. There is all types of speculation floating around. I contacted Mark via a text message on Saturday regarding the issue and he replied that he will take care of the problem. I left a few message with the Parks Commissioner Eddie Morris as well. He has yet to reply. I feel that he may be the one behind this. However we do not have all of the facts yet. Once we do we will keep all of you informed. At this point there is nothing we can do until we have our facts straight. Once we do we will know if which direction we need to take if any at all.
Thanks,
Tom Farrell
Secretary - New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing inc.
6/17
I believe the Supervisor before I believe some person at the lot with no name. They might mean the Park Commissioner, We will find out soon
Willie
This is absolutely outrageous !! Not only are people being told fishing is not allowed, they are being denied access to a public park because they are in possession of a fishing rod !!!
Willie - calm me down, please :)! I know you have been thru this nonsense before, but this is outrageous to me. it was bad enough yesterday me and my father were made to feel like criminals because we had the audacity to go fishing.
This is certainly not Leskos fault. Maybe this will blow over fast, but someone in that town needs to pay the price for this outrageous behavior !!
Ok, time for me to take a deep breath !!
In a message dated 6/28/2009 10:44:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles R. Muller
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:36 AM
Subject: Shoreham fishing decal
Just came back from attempting to get my Shoreham fishing decal at the Shoreham Brookhaven Beach, as of 9:30 AM the gate is locked and there are no signs of any activity.
"The more things change, the more they stay the same."
Charlie
In a message dated 6/17/2009 3:06:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
I can finally give all of you some very good news. I finally spoke to Supervisor Mark Lesko today. The Town of Brookhaven now has a new policy regarding fishing at Shoreham Beach. As of today Shoreham Beach has been added to Brookhaven’s Night Fishing Permit. Also fisherman will be required to obtain a fishing access sticker for Shoreham Beach for daytime use. This is not a fishing permit or license. It is to determine who is a resident or a non resident. The fishing access sticker will be free to all Town of Brookhaven residents. If you are a non resident you will be able to park in the lot for a fee of $20 and that parking fee will include the sticker. Walk on’s will be permitted for a fee of $10. You will be required to provide valid legal documentation to obtain the sticker. The normal hours of the beach will be extended as well. The beach will be open from 5am to 9pm daily. There will be employees in the booth during those hours. The official opening date for Shoreham Beach is 27 June 2009. However the night fishing permit is currently in effect.
Thank you to everyone who assisted in this effort. If it wasn’t for each and every one of you as individuals this may not have been possible. Each email, phone call, letter sent, petition signed carried a lot of weight in getting Shoreham Beach open to fisherman. This goes to show you what can be done when you are organized and when you stand up for your rights. I also need to thank all of the websites for all of there support. They made it much easier to mobilize everyone in our efforts of regaining access at the beach. Last but not least we also need to thank Supervisor Lesko for all of his support. He has clearly proven that he is a friend of the fisherman and looking out for the best interests of everyone involved. You can all be proud of this victory.
There will be more to follow in the near future. Once again thank you for all of your support.
Sincerely,
Tom Farrell Secretary – New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
To keep everyone informed please see letter below I presented Mark Lesko (Town of Brookhaven Supervisor ). Also yesterday afternoon Debbie Delgatto and I met in person with Supervisor Lesko. Willy Young was unable to attend as planned due to being in the Hospital for surgery. (Luckily Willy is home now and recovering well).
"5/14/2009
To Town of Brookhaven Supervisor Mark Lesko:
On behalf of the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing we would like to congratulate you on your great success becoming the new Town of Brookhaven Supervisor. We look forward to a continuous and positive working relationship with you and the Town Board.
As discussed throughout your campaign for election we have several things we would like to work along with you regarding recreational fishing in the Town of Brookhaven . Below is a list of requests we would like to start off with.
1. We strongly urge you to re-open the access of Shoreham Beach to recreational fisherman for day and night use. Also we would like the No Fishing sign to either be removed or modified as soon as possible. (A notation on the sign of no fishing within the bathing area is acceptable). Additionally we would like Shoreham Beach to be added to the already existing Brookhaven Night Fishing Permit.
2. We would also like to request establishing a Fishing Advisory Board for the Town of Brookhaven . We would like the board to meet with the Town Board 3 – 4 times per year to help the town with any recreational fishing related problems or issues. The recreational fisherman we would like to appoint to the advisory board are named as follows: Mike Lang who resides at 41 Lombardi Dr. Smith Point 631-617-5067, NY 11967, Debbie Delgatto of 19 Hazel Ave. Farmingville NY 11738 631-372-7167 and Vito Orlando of 14 Longleaf Ln. Medford NY 11763 631-289-5081.
3. We would like to request either a key or card system for parking during night time access. This system was successful at other locations in the past and to the best of our knowledge is already in place at the Town of Brookhaven dog run. The New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing would be open to giving the Town financial assistance in installing such a system.
4. We would also like to have bilingual no littering signs posted. They could be constructed of aluminum and measure 16” x 20”. The NYCRF could also assist the town financially in this effort as well.
5. We would also like to request a non resident night fishing permit to be established. This permit could be sold in a limited number, and only for certain locations that can sustain additional people. The fee for the permit could be 2 – 3 times the amount of a residents permit. With the current state of our economy this could only help generate more finances for the Town of Brookhaven . The locations we would like to see added to a night permit for non residents are as follows: Shoreham Beach, Blue Point fishing pier, Cedar Beach fishing pier, West Meadow Beach, Sandspit Marina in Patchogue, Forge River Fishing Pier on Riviera Dr. in Mastic, Stony Brook Fishing Pier, Pine Neck Dock in East Patchogue, Corey Beach in Blue Point, Union Ave. dock in Center Moriches and the Maple Ave. Dock in East Moriches.
6. Last but not least we would like to see additional parking spaces at Hallock Landing road in Rocky point, Woodhull Landing Road in Sound Beach , Landing Road in Miller Place and Hagerman Landing Road in Rocky Point. The parking over at West Meadow beach could be improved as well due to the gate that has been moved.
Please keep in mind the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing and the majority of recreational fisherman are extremely conservation minded. We are more than happy to provide beach clean ups as required from time to time. Thank you very much in advance for all of your support and consideration.
Sincerely,
Thomas J. Farrell Secretary – New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing 631-840-7199"
In my opinion Mr. Lesko was very receptive and appreciative with our requests being completely rational. He thanked us (the NYCRF) for all of the support we had given him during the campaign and election. He also informed me that he has been dealing with the residents in the Shoreham Beach area and has been talking to Jane Bonner as well. Jane wanted to attend our meeting however Mark told her not to be there because he felt it would be counter productive. I feel very confident that he is going to give us what we are looking for. He did not commit to a firm decision on what he plans on doing with Shoreham Beach and the other requests, however he did tell me that he will be making his decision regarding Shoreham within 1 week. (The Beach will be re-opening however the day and night issue has to be worked out with the residents).
Mark is completely on board for a Recreational Fishing Advisory Board. They will be working on this in the near future. As you read in the letter above they were given the names of the recreational anglers we want on the Board..
He is heavily in favor of card locking access system for the parks. Mark likes the idea of accountability. When people only see a few cars there for the night and they know their name is on record being there they will be less likely to leave any trash behind or cause any other issues.
Debbie Delgatto had taken some photographs of the parking areas of the North Shore beaches.. She presented them to Mark so he could clearly see there is a major parking issue. Several of the beaches on the North Shore have plenty of area for parking however there are only a few actual parking spaces while the rest of the street is riddled with no parking signs. Mark will be looking into this situation for us. One thing I did not like at the meeting was that he asked me about daytime fishing and permits being related to the day a few times. I was adamant in the fact that fishing during the day is our basic right and that nowhere in the country do you have to file for a permit to fish salt water during the daylight hours.. Fishing during the night may be a privilege that we have to have a permit for but in no way do we need a permit for our basic given rights. He is very clear on what our stance will be. Mark brought up to us that he will be going back to talk to the residents who have been reasonable and not the ones who have been completely unreasonable. He thinks our proposal will go over very well with them. Also he did say a few times that he does not believe the Town can legally do anything to prevent us from passing in and out of the beach with fishing gear. So he is thankful that we are being so reasonable with our actions. When enforcement was brought up regarding the beaches and parks a poor excuse was given. We were told that the Parks officers are being cut back and that enforcement costs money which they really do not have much of. They do not feel that they can provide enforcement due to today’s lack revenue. It was brought up that SCPD used to patrol those beaches on ATV’s and when they were there they did not have many if any issues. In my opinion they will be looking into some possible help from the County for enforcement. Overall the meeting went extremely well. Now he has 1 week left to make his decision. He knows what he has to do and I feel things will go very well. I hope this report will be good enough for all. My computer at home has crashed and I am trying to squeak everything in while at work.
Thank You,
Tom Farrell Secretary – New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
I agree. You can take "2 person limit per permit per car when applying for permit" in different contexts. What if a father wants to take his three children fishing? I don't understand.
It may have to do with "1" resident, I doubt if the others even know of this. Maybe Jane is just trying to save face and look as if she is still in control. In any event she is looking more foolish than ever, and has sealed her fate as far as this Novembers election is concerned. Some of her closest friends and former political supporters are in disagreement with her. Being in this town since 1962 has given me "eyes and ears" in town hall and on the streets.
I'm really interested to see Lesko's response to this.
4/22-
Stan,
I will bring this to the Coaltion meeting tomorrow. I am also going to send this to Willie and Tom today.
I think just charging fisherman to access the beach is probably illegal, aside from that it will never fly. if swimmers, bathers, etc are allowed to use the beach with no permits , then fisherman should be able to also.
John
In a message dated 4/22/2009 9:41:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
4/20/2009-An email I received from Rich (darkskies) at stripersandangers.com who, with the other NJ anglers, have been so helpful and supportive with this issue: http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=3711
Picture essay comparing and contrasting Brookhaven vs Riverhead
You would be great to be on this committee. I think this committee is really important, we need to get Shoreham back open but that is the tip of the iceberg, access needs to be improved all throughout Brookhaven. The fisherman having seats on this committee is essential for this and also to make sure something like Shoreham never happens again.
In a message dated 4/5/2009 12:17:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
John,
I just
got a
call
from Tim
Mazzei
in
response
to the
email I
sent him
Saturday.
I was
very
impressed
with his
demeanor,
and his
support
for
fisherman
and the
opening
of
beaches,
for
fishing,
on the
North
Shore of
Brookhaven. He
told me
I can
hold him
to his
word
on these
issues
if he
gets
elected.
I never
had a
politician
say that
to me in
the past
37 years
while
being involved
with the
town. Personally
he
seemed
like a
very
regular,
straight
up
person.
I have
yet to
meet
him, and
unfortunately
do not
know
that
much
about
him, but
he did
seem
very
sincere.
He, like
I, own
businesses
and
discussed
other
issues
that we
both
stand on
common
ground with.
John, I
know it
is late,
but I
would
appreciate
if you
could
get this
out to
the
various
bloggs.
Tomorrow
we vote
and our
faction
should
hear
this to
help
make
their
decision.
Stan
John,
below is a
email I
received
from Zeldin,
and my
reply.
Stan
My repley:
Dear Mr.
Zeldin,
I
appreciate
your
support
for
Mazzei. However,
his
stand on
the
Shoreham
issue
(no
Fishing,
access,
etc.)
left me
very
skeptical
(to
close to
Jane
Bonner's
political
agenda ).
I can
not
support
a
gentleman
who has
political
ties,
and
indorses,
a person
who
usurps
Americans
basic
rights.
Being a
war
veteran
as you,
I voted
for you
In the
last
election
because
I
favored
your
stand on
most
issues.
I admire
young
people,
as
yourself,
that
want to
get
involved
and make
a
difference.
Myself,
and
8,000
(or
there
about)
fishermen
in the
Brookhaven
township
have had
our fill
of the
current
and past
administrations.
If we
sacrificed
our well
being
for this
country,
why
should
we be
banned
from
fishing our
shores.
Especially
since it
is a racial
issue
that
nobody
wants to
talk
about.
This is
not the
American
way.
Sincerely,
Stanley
L.
Hentschel
I have
owned
and
operated
the
Rocky
Point
Fishing
Stop for
37 years
and can
be be
considered
the
instigator
of this
whole
mess
which is
a total
waste of
time and
energy
for the
Town of
Brookhaven
under
these
recessionary
times.
What is
right is
right,
and what
is wrong
is
wrong.
Until a
wrong is
made
right I
will
continue
this
fight.
Hi John,
I just found out
about the email
you sent me
about Jane
Bonner. I'm
really sorry if
I caused you any
grief. Somehow
it got mixed up
with that day's
email on the
Shoreham issues
and was
inadvertently
included with
mail I posted
on my web site.
As I have stated
before, I have
nothing
against Jane
Bonner, she has
always been very
nice to me.
Over the past
ten or so years
of knowing her,
I personally
like her very
much. However,
her political
views on the
Shoreham issue
is dead wrong
and must be made
right. She has
put a lot of
time in on
solving problems
throughout our
community and I
applaud her for
that. But, this
is not the way
to solve the
Shoreham
problem. It's a
shame this issue
involving basic
rights will
probably ruin
her political
career. I
really didn't
want to get
involved with
this issue since
I have been
beating my head
against the wall
with prior
corrupt town
administrations over
access to
beaches for more
than 30 years
now. Hell, I
just want to
retire. But, I
just can't let
this die, and
won't retire
until all
fishing access
rights are
restored. As a
war veteran it
is against
everything I
went to war and
fought for. It's
bad for the town
economically and
dead wrong
morally.
Again, I'm sorry
John, and will
publish this to
help rectify.
Stan
We have an election coming up the 31st of this month for Town of Brookhaven Supervisor and it is extremely important to get out and Vote. Lesko seems to support fishermen's issues more than Mazzei. In fact, Mazzei stated at the recent Shoreham Civic Association's meeting that the reason my business and other local businesses' lost sales this past summer was due to the "internet", not because the closure of Shoreham Beach. If the beach is closed why in the world would anybody come to Rocky Point to spend their money? All we have is our beaches. And, now because of the slowdown in the building industry, how will our economy be driven??? He obviously does not know what he is talking about. The recession has reduced sales, however, I have weathered recessions three times in the past thirty seven years and that alone will teach you how to run a business. It's pretty simple to me," You can't make money by selling bait and tackle when a town does not allow people, even it's residents, to fish". And if they can't come to fish they certainly are not buying gas, lunch, patronizing other local businesses, or renting for the summer vacation season. Rocky Point started attracting people to it's beaches back in the thirties and that is what built our town. This town has always been dependant on transient business, and without the construction business, will only deteriorate more than it already has under the current administration.
LINK IS A VIDEO TAKEN AT SHOREHAM CIVIC ASSOCIATION MEETING "MAKE YOUR VOTES COUNT"
----- Original Message
-----
From:
rslmlutch@optonline.net
Sent: Friday,
March 20, 2009 8:54
AM
Subject:
rslmlutch@optonline.net
has sent you a link
to Yahoo! Video
Forward this to Stan and can you post it on Noreast?? SWRWeekly.com - March 09 Civic Meeting http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4707695?fr=yvmtf
Almost all of the fisherman seem to support Lesko strongly. Lesko actually came out and said open up the beach now !!
Mazzei seemed for a
compromise , but kept
talking about National Grid
property.
There were about 110 people
there, at least 1/2
fisherman. There were about
11 questions, 3 related to
fishing. after the 1st
fishing question and answer
all the fisherman were
cheering !!
Lesko is the man, Mazzei too
tied to Bonner as he
mentioned her name several
times. Mazzei also said in
response to my question on
RPFS that he thought your
business was off because of
on-line sales.
go here , a lot of good info
on the meeting :
In a message dated
3/20/2009 8:58:40 A.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
fishingstop@msn.com
writes:
Sorry for he confusion
Charles !! Glad you are on
board with us !!
We need to do everything
possible to get Bonner out.
I dont live in Brookhaven,
but Stan gave me my first
job and I grew up fishing
those beaches. I will do
anything and everything
possible to help get Bonner
kicked out of office.
Regards,
John
In a message dated
3/19/2009 10:45:35 A.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
crmuller@optonline.net
writes:
I submitted a question,
President read it off, he
also said I recognize this
guys name from the blog ( my
name was on the sheet of
paper), but i wont say his
name. he read it word for
word. I dont rememeber what
the politicians said, they
didn't disagree at all, but
I believe Mazzei said
something to the effect i
thought his business was
down because of Internet
sales.
<<
Question # 1 · Given the state of the economy, what do you say to local businesses who have been negatively affected by the limited beach access in Brookhaven and the banning of fishing at Shoreham ? · One for example, Rocky Point Fishing Stop has been a responsible member of the Brookhaven business community for over 30 years and has had to lay off employees and is considering closing down or moving their business to Riverhead.>>
This morning I received more mail about the meeting than I could ever publish, however, the following should pretty much sum everything up: Stan,
Go here to see some more info on
the meeting :
John
Stan,
Almost 50% of the people who
showed up were fisherman !
Bonner was there , all
accounts had her very upset
and unprofessional.
We are going to push hard to
have even more fisherman
there on the 18th !!
John
Both Lesko and Mazzei were
pretty clueless about the
Shoreham issue. Lesko
(Democrat) didn't make a
statement one way or another
on it because he didn't know
about it. Mazzei said he
would support and work
towards access. Neither of
them are fisherman or really
had any clue as to what was
going on. The time was
serevly limited with each
candidate getting 10 minutes
for Q and A and the civic
association was sticking to
it.
At the end of the meeting,
Bill Behr (Bonner's neighbor
and member of the surf club
with me) called her out on
the beach issue. She then
went on a temper tantrum
about how she feels
threatened, she locks her
doors now, how her house was
posted on Noreast, she fears
for her life, bla bla bla. Bonner
is now claiming that it's a
county issue since the
county is responsible for
the swimming only
designation of the beach.
When people started asking
her to explain on her
actions, she pretty much
denied responsibility for
them and tried blaming it on
the county. She said she had
no other choice since it was
written on the permit as a
swimming beach only. Tom
Farrel, a member of the
coalition, made some good
points to her on access, the
issue in general, etc.
You could definately see
that the emails, letters,
calls etc have gotten to her
regarding Shoreham by the
way she acted as well as in
her voice. She's absolutely
not cut out for politics
since she got extremely
defensive about anything
said to her and raised her
voice, cut people off, and
had a strong tone to her
words. Anyone that asked her
questions were calm and not
attacking her or being mean,
just being blunt about the
whole issue.
Overall neither candidate
took a strong stand
on Shoreham. The only one
who made me feel somewhat ok
was Mazzei since he directly
said he'd help, but afterall
it's politics so who the
fuck knows.
Hey Stan---
Jane Bonner stopped by after the
civic meeting last night because she
"really needed a good strong
drink". The meeting was supposed to
be a debate by the Town Supervisor
candidates Mazzei and Lesko and
don't know why Jane was there
(support for Mazzei?). Anyway,
there were a "handful" of fisherman
there that were so "nasty they
brought her to tears". Evidently
the Parks Dept has deemed the beach
swimming only so she is just
following the rules. She don't get
it. I kept pretty quiet. She said
the "Riverhead guy" and 2 guys from
Selden and Centereach were there and
that they didn't have the right to
use the beach. Isn't Centereach and
Selden in Brookhaven Town? Keep up
the fight!
They published my letter in the
Times Beacon Record :
I expect my letter to be in North
Shore Sun tomorrow. I am going to
print out copies from the papers and
mail them to the whole town board,
alessi , lavalle and Tim Bishop
Newsday 2/22/09
NEWSDAY Feb 22 2009 Michael R. Ebert February 22, 2009 At Cedar Beach in Mount Sinai, there is a playground and nearby is a sign that reads "private beach ahead." I have heard mothers scold children who crossed that apparent property line, but I believe that either the state or the Town of Brookhaven owns the beach within a few feet of the high tide mark and anyone can stroll the beach within that parameter. Can you check the law? - Barbara Ludwig-Cull, Port Jefferson Station OUR reader is correct. In New York State, the public may walk along underwater lands and the "foreshore" - the stretch of beach subject to the ebb and flow of the tides - of privately owned beaches without penalty. The principle is outlined in the Public Trust Doctrine, a common-law legal precedent that says states hold legal title to lands under tidewater and to navigable waterways in trust for the public's benefit. "It's actually an issue that comes up a lot," said Steven Resler, a coastal resource specialist for the Department of State's coastal management program. "Traditionally, the 'seaweed line' has been interpreted as the boundary between private property and public trust lands." According to the law, when the foreshore is covered by the tides the public may use the water for "boating, bathing, fishing, recreation and other lawful purposes," Resler said. When the tide is out, the public may pass and repass over the foreshore as a means of access to reach the water for these purposes, and may also lounge and recline on foreshore lands. At Cedar Beach, the Crest Hollow Beach Owners Association owns the "upland" - the stretch of beach above the seaweed line - but the public has the right to "traverse the foreshore," Resler said. Town spokesman Kevin Molloy said similar privately owned beaches exist in Mastic Beach and Rocky Point.
Stan,
I sent below letter to North Shore
Sun last night, hopefully they print
it this week. We need to keep the
pressure on.
John
<<
As
the winter starts coming to an
end, fisherman across Brookhaven
Town and Long Island ready
themselves for the upcoming
fishing season at the area
beaches. Fisherman have been
fishing at Shoreham beach for
years, but because of the
fishing ban instituted last year
at the Town of Brookhaven
Shoreham Beach by the Town
Board, as it stands now , people
will not be fishing there this
year. In spite of thousands of
letters, emails, phone calls,
efforts from fishing
organizations, swimming
organizations, local business
groups and meetings with members
of the Brookhaven town board,
the town board still has not
lifted the fishing ban at
Shoreham Beach.
The Public Trust Doctrine
guarantees people their rights
to the beaches. The ban of
fishing at Shoreham Beach
violates the Public Trust
Doctrine. New York State
recognizes the PTD and promotes
beach access in New York. New
Jersey, Connecticut and other
states also recognize this and
have programs to promote access
to the beaches via the Public
Trust Doctrine. Why does the
Town of Brookhaven not recognize
the Public Trust Doctrine? With
the economy in dire straits, do
the residents of Brookhaven want
the town to use their hard
earned tax dollars to fight a
legal=2 0battle over the rights
of people to access Shoreham
Beach? The town could be
spending taxpayers own money to
keep them off the beaches they
pay taxes for!
As
businesses across Long Island
suffer, local businesses suffer
also due to this fishing ban.
Rocky Point Fishing Stop has
been a responsible business in
Rocky Point for 35 years,
surviving a fire, reduced beach
access and down swings in the
economy. Now as their business
suffers due to this fishing ban
at Shoreham Beach, they
contemplate going out of
business or moving out of the
town of Brookhaven. Employees at
Rocky Point Fishing Stop are
losing their jobs or are having
their hours reduced. I thought
the current movement in the
country is to create jobs and
stimulate the economy, not run
responsible businesses out of
business or out of town.
The people who use the beaches
and live in the area deserve
clean, trouble free beaches. If
there are people who are not
using the beaches responsibly
and breaking the law, then I am
all for enforcing the laws and
penalizing the offenders.
But to single out
fisherman and ban fishing at
these beaches is analogous to
banning driving because some
people are speeding or running
red lights. Brookhaven Town
recently used tax payer money to
hire Park Rangers. If there are
law enforcement issues
at20Shoreham Beach, assign the
officers to this beach to
enforce the laws.
The areas and nation’s economy
has crumbled underneath the feet
of the politicians who are
elected to lead this area and
country. Every day the
politicians reach into our
pockets one more time to help
bail out another company and add
more to the government that has
already failed us. We pay
tremendously high taxes to live
in Brookhaven Town and Long
Island to use such resources as
parks and beaches. Yet as our
jobs are lost, as our 401ks
disappear, one of the things we
enjoy most, a day on the beach
with our fellow fisherman and
children has been taken away
from us by the Town of
Brookhaven Town Board. This ban
cannot be allowed to stand.
Fisherman and non-fisherman
alike who live in such places as
Shoreham, Rocky Point, all of
Brookhaven town, Long
Island and beyond are standing
up for their rights and will
continue to fight until the ban
is lifted. Hopefully the
politicians soon realize the
wants and rights of their
constituents and lift this ban.
John Russell
Long Island, New York>>
Stan,
Are you available any time this
weekend to chat about this ? This is
really terrible what Bonner has done
to your store.
I will be back home at about 1pm
today.
In a message dated 2/21/2009
10:49:48 A.M. Eastern Standard
Time, fishingstop@msn.com
writes:
The only reason Jane Bonner is
currently somewhat reaching out
to us through other people is
because our efforts are
definitely working. She knows
that we are very well organized
and massive in numbers. It came
out of the mouth of Mr.Foley
himself that they know we are
very organized. With
the election coming we are her
worst nightmare. She is dealing
in fear and weakness now because
she knows tha she was completely
wrong by doing what sh has done.
She is looking for an easy way
out of this now. That is part of
the reason Scott Santamaria was
campaigning the way he was last
night. We all know he did not
like me questioning him at all
and that he would not let anyone
finish speaking that spoke of
any opposition to what he and
Jane wanted. He is an outsider
folks and should be treated as
such. After all of the work that
we have put in all of a sudden
he pops into the picture and
wants to look like a Hero with
Jane while we give up our
rights. There is something very
wrong with that picture. I am
quite sure that if Stan from
Rocky Point was there he would
not have been to happy with what
Scott was proposing either.
Now we all have to be on the
same page with this effort and
fight together against them! We
can't be fighting amongst each
other or this will never work.
By holding our next meeting in
the proper manner any major
outbursts should not even have
an opportunity to arise. We are
the Coalition now not seperate
entities.
"If we do not work WITH the
politicians and PLAY the game
and get along with EACH OTHER,
like RFA and LIBBA and others,
we will NEVER get anything
accomplished."
We always work with the
Politicians. (I am new at this
but Willy and Chuck have been
through Hell and back with these
types of issues). We wouldn't
have as many politicians on our
side up in Albany as we do if we
didn't. LIBBA I happen to think
extremely highly of. The RFA
issues are nothing new. We all
have known about this for quite
a long time now. Maybe someday
that will change.
Can you imagine asking an
outsider to come and speak about
what the 2 of you have been
discussing only to have him sing
a diferent song once he gets
there??? Lets just chalk it off
as a bad night and move on from
here.
Doug, Quite obviously Shoreham is a very emotional issue as last night showed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I fully respect that , but in my humble opinion, approving the motion on the table last night would have been a disaster and one I would not personally support. Trading our basic rights to fish and access the beach for a night fishing permit would be a bad move in this particular situation and set a very bad precedent in general. People have been fishing at Shoreham beach for years, night and day. One politician comes in and for the benefit of a select few residents, bans fishing. So we are going to make a deal to get our rightful access back that compromises our basic rights ??? I give Scott credit for coming down and trying to broker a deal. But he has a vested interest in making this problem go away for Jane Bonner. He has a previous working relationship with her and making this problem go away is in her own best interests. Obviously all the letters, phone calls, emails and pressure the fisherman are putting on Brookhaven is bringing Jane Bonner to the table. Do you think if we were not putting a lot of pressure on her she would be willing to deal with us ? Not a chance. Let me ask a question, when Jane Bonner closed the beach, prior to that , did she reach out to the fisherman to work with us to solve this problem ? No she did not, she did the bidding of the local homeowners groups as she promised she was going to close Shoreham Beach to fishing and she did. I think she never expected the outrage from the fisherman and non-fisherman alike. I have been involved with this situation right from the beginning and devoted a lot of hours of my time spreading the word. I would be more then happy to speak to anyone about this. For those in attendance last night who have not been following this issue, you got a very narrow view of what is going on at Shoreham. To me it is very simple , restore fishing to Shoreham as it was for years, deploy the park rangers every couple of weeks to enforce the laws and this problem will go away. If the politicians dont see this as a viable solution , then they have other motives behind keeping the beach closed. I support Willie and believe he is headed down the right path at Shoreham. Anyone who wants to contact me and discuss this, I respect all opinions and would be happy to do so. We must stick together, we have no chance if the fisherman do not stick together. John Russell
The Shoreham Beach issue is no doubt
an extremely emotional issue. Not
just because of Shoreham itself but
due to the entire scope of its
nature. What Jane Bonner is trying
to do to the Recreational Angler
there can spread like wild fire
everywhere else if she is to get
away with what she is doing. In my
opinion Scott Santamaria (correct
spelling?) was present at the
meeting for his own agenda for his
own benefit with his working
relationship with Jane Bonner. I for
one would not trust him at all
negotiating any sort of compromise
with Jane Bonner after listening to
him last night. I was extremely
aggravated myself listening to his
campaign for Jane. By doing what he
was shooting for we would be giving
in to the Town and letting them set
a precedent against all of us. This
issue is not as simple as whether
you live and fish in Brookhaven or
not. This can spread throughout the
entire Island if we are not careful
and if we do not prevail. What
happened to all of the efforts and
hard work that has been put in by
several people aleady on this
particular issue? If we were to jump
to a vote last night all efforts
would have been undermined. Why
should we have acted in haste?
Because some attorney comes in and
throws a few bias words around? Are
we all to fall for it? There is no
way any vote should be held yet
until we have our meetings with Mr.
Mazzei and Mr. Lesko. Jane Bonner
will not be able to do what she is
currently doing to us if her
supervisor is on our side. All that
should have happened last night was
to table the disussion to the next
meeting so everyone can discuss
everything with there clubs prior to
making a rash and hasty desision on
such an important matter. Think
carefully and rationally about what
you would all like to do on this
issue. Don't let the blow up from
last night persuade you to give up
on this fight. We have put way to
much time and effort into this. Why
should we let some councilwoman take
away our rights as citizens??? We
can not tolerate her actions. From
here out we need to meet with Mazzei
and Lesko and publish the results of
the interviews. I highly doubt that
they are going to have her by their
side if she is too much of a
liability for them. She is not a
Republican as some believe. She may
vote that way at times but she is
not a member of the Republican
party. So she does not have the
power or clout that Scott the
attorney leads you to believe. Also
I happen to know for a fact that the
VFW Post in Shoreham has no love for
her at al. In fact they can't stand
her. One o the other Councilwoman
named Kathleen Walsh happens to be
very pro veteran. Her son is
currently serving the United States
Army over in Afghanistan. Maybe we
should respectfully each out to her.
I have a feeling she could be an
ally for us. After finding out how
our meetings go with each candidate
for Supervisor we will then know
which direction we need to go. If it
means that we have to go down to the
beach during the springto fish and
get a summons to beat in court so be
it. I am more than willing to take a
summons for this cause when I
believe 110% in my heart that we
will beat this
----- Original Message -----
From:
Stanley Hentschel
Sent: Saturday, February
21, 2009 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Brookhaven
update
When John Russel got back from
the meeting he emailed and told
me about Willy's out burst. As
I stated all last year, you
can't take anything away
from Willy since he devotes
so much time to fishing issues.
I would have preferred to get my
foot in the door and work from
there. The BBCA thinks he is too
radical and is not helping at
all! I can see his point of view
with basic rights, "all or
nothing". But, this will not
get fishermen access any quicker
or help the stores dilemma. I
think the only way to
continue the fight now, is to
begin another campaign on NESW
web site, more petitions and
emails to the town in order to
keep the pressure on the current
town administration. I believe
we should push for total access
on a state wide basis, however,
getting town access is much more
important for our stores
survival on the North Shore of
Brookhaven right now.
As far as the up coming
election, nobody can seem to get
a solid commitment from either
candidate.
I had a customer in this morning
after we spoke who gave me an
upodate about last nights Coalition
meeting regarding access and
Brookhaven.
There was a gentleman present last
night who is an attorney and also a
fisherman speaking on behlaf of
Bonner and Brookhaven. Bonner has
apparently sucummbed to the emails,
phone calls and pressure from
fisherman and asked this guy to come
and try to help the two sides work
out a deal, basically mediating
between the two sides (free of
charge). He says that Brookhaven has
agreed to allow dusk to dawn access
to Shoreham, and that it will be
added to the night fishing permit
access points. He also mentioned
that the town is interested in a non
resident permit (obviously for
revenue reasons).
Everyone present at the meeting
seemed to be in agreement that this
is a good starting point and they
can work from there. Well Willy
walked up to get a cup of coffee,
and as he walked past this guy
(mediator) he starts yelling saying
the beaches are a god given right,
this isn't good enough..etc. At this
point, the guy gets up and again
explains how he makes $150/hr and
he's doing this for free right now
on behalf of Jane, and he doesn't
deserve to be spoken to like this
and this is not what Willy said on
the phone bla bla bla. After all
this he basically says your on your
own now with the town and walks out,
along with a lot of people at the
meeting. Doug ( who told me this)
says everyone was disgusted with
Willy and how he acted, and that he
basically flew off the handle on
this guy for no reason on someone
who was helping us.
Maybe you can email John or anyone
else you might now at the meeting to
see if this really was the case.
Hey Stan,
Hope you are enjoying the Keys,
how is the fishing ?
The Coalition had a meeting last
night. It got very ugly.
Remember a couple of months ago
when I told everyone that
someone who knows with Bonner
wanted to broker a meeting with
us ? Everyone pretty much shot
down the idea ? Well , that guy
is Scott Santamaria, he works
with Bonner and was trying to
broker a deal, partly for the
fisherman, but probably in a
large part for his and Bonners
sake.
Anyway , he must have reached
out to Willie to come to the
meeting because he was there.
Willie gave him an opportunity
to speak. He gave us the same
spiel he gave me last time.
Basically he said he had a
meeting with Bonner on Monday
and wanted to broker a deal. He
wanted to offer us night fishing
access to start, no day fishing
access. This didn't fly with me
and some others, Willie
included. Why should we give up
our basic right to fish anytime
, anywhere to get just night
fishing. He basically said take
this crumb, then we can ask for
more when the politicians and
homeowners see that we are
playing ball.
Scott was getting upset when
some of us pushed back on this
proposal. Some people in the
room who were totally informed
seemed to want to do this. It
almost came to a vote. But at
some point Willie accused Scott
of lying about the day fishing
part of the proposal and he
started screaming at him. it got
ugly. Finally Scott just left.
It never came to a vote.
Bonner is feeling the heat ,
this guy is trying to win favor
with her so he came down to try
to make this go away. Throwing
us a crumb of night fishing and
basically saying take it or
leave it is complete BS.
Willie is going to try to meet
with Lesko and Mazzei to find
out their position on Shoreham
prior to the election.
It was some scene last night !!!
John
Stan,
You should send him an email asking
him if he is trying to bring
business to Brookhaven , first thing
he should do is make sure the
businesses (RPFS) he has stay !!
John
Mazzei campaign
focused on the economy, taxes
Councilman says he'd run town like a business if elected supervisor By Kyle Reitan
"He is really a renaissance man," said Sen. Ken LaValle (R-Port Jefferson) of Mr. Mazzei, who will appear opposite Democratic candidate Mark Lesko on the March 31 special election ballot. "He will be a great supervisor." The election was set last week after Mr. Foley resigned from the post to replace longtime Sen. Caesar Trunzo in the state's 3rd Senate District. Mr. Foley's former chief of staff Lori Baldassare is serving as acting supervisor until the election. Mr. Mazzei and his supporters said Saturday that concerns over the economy and lowering Brookhaven's taxes will be central to the councilman's campaign. Mr. Mazzei said that as supervisor he would look to bring new businesses to Brookhaven in an effort to stimulate the local economy. "I'm going to run the Town of Brookhaven like a business," he noted. "I'm going to encourage businesses to come to the Town of Brookhaven so that we can increase our commercial tax base to relieve the residential tax base." Town Conservative Party chairman Richard Johannesen said a lot can be done to enhance economic development in Brookhaven. He said he hopes to see rezoning in downtown districts, including Rocky Point, that will limit the number of school children coming into the community and maximize the amount of tax rateables. The word economy slipped off the tongues of nearly everyone in attendance at Saturday's rally. Everitt Dewitt of Lake Ronkonkoma deemed Mr. Mazzei an honest candidate who will budget government spending. "Economy is number one with everybody, and I know Tim's working very strongly in improving the area," Mr. Dewitt said. Ted DiSalvo, president of the Holtsville Civic Association, said he believes Mr. Mazzei, who was appointed Councilman in 2002 and has since been re-elected three times, has done a good job for the 5th Council District. Mr. Mazzei's district stretches west along the South Shore from East Patchogue to the Islip town line. Joining in the Mazzei campaign effort here on the North Shore are Councilwoman Jane Bonner, who served alongside Mr. Mazzei on the Town Board majority this year, and County Legislator Dan Losquaro (R-Shoreham). Mr. Losquadro said Mr. Mazzei's past experience as a former prosecutor and head of the homicide bureau in Suffolk County "shows the type of integrity and steadfastness that we need in the Town of Brookhaven." In an effort to win the election, the Mazzei campaign said it plans to utilize every strategy available -- from making phone calls to going door-to-door -- to increase Mr. Mazzei's name recognition, particularly on the North Shore, and to spread his message. Mr. Mazzei said that message includes a pledge to lower taxes and to improve the quality of life in Brookhaven. "It is a very short time, but his name is very well known and people like him," said Arlene Stevens, a volunteer from Coram.
Stan,
For your info attached is my
response to Mr. Mazzei.
Bill
Mr. Mazzei,
Thank you for your response to my
e-mail. One of the most important
things that you can do is to make
the rational enforcement of all of
the Town's rules regarding the Town
beach a part of your platform.
Currently there is an irrational
enforcement of the Town Code
regarding fishing and beach access.
The Code states that you are not
allowed to fish in designated
swimming areas of the Town beach.
Why then are Town residents being
prohibited from even bringing in and
carrying fishing equipment to the
beach (via access from the Town
beach parking lot) to be able to
legally fish at other areas of the
shoreline outside of the Town beach
property? I believe that this type
of enforcement is illegal as
it prevents many Town
resident fishermen access
to shoreline that they are legally
entitled to fish. By the way, there
is enough room that there should
also be a designated fishing area
provided at the Town beach.
The Town's current policy of banning
fishermen access to the beach was
instituted to addresss problems of
litter and vandalism that have
occurred at Town beach areas and
adjoining privately owned beach
areas. The Town's policy has not
worked. This summer there was
excessive litter and vandalism as
well. I know this for a fact as my
community in Shoreham includes beach
access which I am fortunate to have
and which I utilize frequently. I
also pick up a lot of litter. The
litter is not attributable solely or
even mostly to fishermen. Most
fishermen remove the litter, they do
not contribute to it or leave it.
If you are willing to do whatever
you can please state that if you are
elected your plans
include rescinding the current
fishing access ban and letting the
law abiding, tax paying, resident
fishermen enjoy what their taxes are
paying for.
Also, please state that you intend
to provide better,
rational enforcement of all of the
Town Code rules regarding littering,
vandalism, etc.
The Town's current policy, of which
Ms. Bonner is a proponent, is
irrational, unfair and illegal. Our
Town should do much better.
Sincerely,
Bill Scherer
I agree , that beach access needs to be restored to what is was , access for everyone, resident or non-resident. If they could up with some cockamannie plan to let local fisherman on and not everyone , it needs to be rejected. I remember Bonner saying something about residents working with local homeowners to get access, that seems totally exclusionary , that wont fly for me. -----Original Message----- From: Stanley Hentschel <fishingstop@msn.com> To: egoer@aol.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 7:34 pm Subject: Re:
The town has always charged
non residents a fee for
daily use.
I believe the beach will be
opened this spring because
of the outcry, however,
since we have gone this far,
I believe we should consider
ALL the people and their
rights based on the PTD.
he menitoned Town of Brookhaven residents directly I wonder if that is a coincidence or maybe they could consider a solution that only allowed Brookhaven residents to use the beach ? I dont even know if they could legally do that. Would you be open to a solution that allowed only residents to fish there ? -----Original Message----- From: Stanley Hentschel <fishingstop@msn.com> To: John Russel <EGOER@aol.com> Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 7:02 pm
Stan,
I received this brief reply from
coucilman Mazzei, but he really
doesn't commit to anything or make
his position clear. Essentially
it's a non answer other than to say
that he will discuss the matter with
Jane Bonner.
Bill
Dear Bill, I am aware of the problem with beach access and have met with Councilman Bonner to see what can be done to help you and other Town of Brookhaven residents that are affected. I will do what ever I can to help. >>> <barnacle1080@optonline.net> 1/12/2009 1:23 pm >>> Send Email To: Town of Brookhaven Your Name: Bill Scherer Your Email: barnacle1080@optonline.net Your Number: Address: Subject: Message: I am glad to hear that you are runnning for the supervisor's seat. I would like to know what your position is with regard to the Town's recently enacted enforcement of banning fishing access at the Town of Brookhaven Beach in Shoreham. My belief is that this ban should be rescinded. It is affront to all law abiding, tax paying, sportsmen who are residents of Brookhaven. Please let me know your position on this matter.
Hi Stan; Lesko worked in the same office at one time with the L.I.B.B.A. Treasurer. Mazzie has spoke to Chuck from L.I.B.B.A and said he is in favor of some form of access ( forgot chucks exact words.) Best to send them questions and act from results.Mazzie has helped Jane before.
Other wise all is well here. Happy
New Year.
Willie
----- Original Message ----- From: Stanley Hentschel Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:50 am Subject: Up coming election to repace Foley To: Willie Young > Hi Willie, > > I'm in the Keys enjoying a warm and fishy winter. Hope > everything is good by you. > > There is going to be an election for Brookhaven town Supervisor > sometime in march between Mazzie (rep) and Lesko (dem). Do you > know anything about the candidates platform on fishing and > access issues. I do not know these politicians and can't find > much out about them. > > Regards, > > Stan
Stan,
I have forwarded some info to
Willie on this. Will let you
know when I hear back. Also,
forward me any responses you get
from Willie.
Send me some pics, would love to
see them.
John
In a message dated 1/13/2009
2:49:44 P.M. Eastern
Standard Time,
fishingstop@msn.com writes:
Stan,
Not
only fisherman on LI are having
problems. Check out what duck
hunters have to contend with
(found on my windshield at Smith
Point). Fortunately, the
Suffolk County Park Police are
very seriously investigating
this. Truly pathetic.
Happy New Year!
Charlie Muller
2008 CORRESPONDENCE The town has always charged non residents a fee for daily use.
I believe the beach will be opened
this spring because of the outcry,
however, since we have gone this
far, I believe we should consider
ALL the people and their rights
based on the PTD.
Willie young said he is good
buddies with Bonner.
Stan,
I received this brief reply from
coucilman Mazzei, but he really
doesn't commit to anything or make
his position clear. Essentially
it's a non answer other than to say
that he will discuss the matter with
Jane Bonner.
Bill
Dear Bill, I am aware
of the problem with beach access and
have met with Councilman Bonner to see
what can be done to help you and other
Town of Brookhaven
Stan,
See below from Willie. John -----Original Message----- From: msawill@optonline.net To: EGOER@aol.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 7:29 am Subject: Re: Brookhaven special election
Hi; It is broader then shoreham. We are going to try and have a
meeting with both. They can ask what they want, but I will put
out what they tell us.
Willie
----- Original Message ----- From: EGOER@aol.com Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:49 pm Subject: Re: Brookhaven special election To: msawill@optonline.net Cc: weakfishin@yahoo.com > Willie, > > I am getting some questions from some people on whether > individuals should > email and Mazzei and Lesko to ask their stance on Shoreham. Do > you think > invdividuals should also do this or let the Coalition do this > and pass the > information down to people after Lesko and Mazzei reply ? > > Thanks, > > John > > > In a message dated 1/13/2009 4:54:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > msawill@optonline.net writes: > > Hi John; We must question both and go from there. > Willie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: EGOER@aol.com > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:41 pm > Subject: Brookhaven special election > To: msawill@optonline.net > Cc: weakfishin@yahoo.com > > > > > Willie and Tom, > > > > Special election for Brookhaven town supervisor is set ( see > > article below) > > , Tim Mazzei (Republican) against Mark Lesko ( Democrat). Do > > you guys know > > either one? > > > > Would one be better for us then other ? if so , do we want to > > spread the > > word at appropriate time amongst fishing community to support > > one of these guys > > ? > > > > John
Hi Stan; Lesko worked in the same office at one time with the
L.I.B.B.A. Treasurer. Mazzie has spoke to Chuck from L.I.B.B.A and
said he is in favor of some form of access ( forgot chucks exact
words.) Best to send them questions and act from results.Mazzie has
helped Jane before.
Other wise all is well here. Happy New Year.
Willie
----- Original Message ----- From: Stanley Hentschel Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:50 am Subject: Up coming election to repace Foley To: Willie Young > Hi Willie, > > I'm in the Keys enjoying a warm and fishy winter. Hope > everything is good by you. > > There is going to be an election for Brookhaven town Supervisor > sometime in march between Mazzie (rep) and Lesko (dem). Do you > know anything about the candidates platform on fishing and > access issues. I do not know these politicians and can't find > much out about them. > > Regards, > > Stan
Stan, Thanks for getting back to me. As far as getting it out to the public, there is some time between now and the elections so the drum beating should start ASAP in order to reach the most people. Bill
From:
Stanley Hentschel [mailto:fishingstop@msn.com] Hi Bill, I am not familiar with these two candidates at all! I have corresponded with Willie Young to get some feed back, and, of course, I will support whoever is behind our issues. I will keep you posted on that, and how we are going to get it out to the public. If the outcome of this election is not beneficial to fishermen (including non-residents) I will either move the store to Riverhead Town or downsize. The weather and fishing has been great so far. Will send some pictures when I get a chance. Stan
Stan,
I have forwarded some info to Willie on this. Will let you know when
I hear back. Also, forward me any responses you get from Willie.
Send me some pics, would love to see them.
John
In a message dated 1/13/2009 2:49:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
fishingstop@msn.com writes:
7:30 at the Sportsfishing Center on Ocean Parkway. Here are directions if you have not been there before :
Will be good to have you there to voice
your opinions on what should be done
next.
John
I should have no problem with that date. Where and when?
Stan,
The next coalition meeting is on the 18th,
Shoreham of course will be a hot topic. Any
chance you can come to this meeting ?
John
Hi John,
I agree, it's senseless to talk with Bonner. She has
already shown her colors and is trying to get
compromises. And now that Foley has been elected
Senator, he could care less.
Anthony Weiss' idea about getting the fishermen
together is good, however, I think we should discuss
our next step (lawyers) rather than have to
compromise our basic rights. It's gone this far,
why not try to open up access to the entire Island.
His contact Scott Santamarha, a lawyer and surf
caster, can help persuade Bonner to open the Town
Beach at Shoreham, It can't hurt, but with
all the public out cry from Bonner's local
constituents concerning this issue, I believe it
will be opened anyway. I think she realizes by now
what she did was wrong and is trying to make it
right. But compromising our rights??? I don't think
so. Also, Scott can give us
valuable info on how we can go about starting
a suite.
From what I can get from some of the town contacts I
have, town officials just want this over with. It
has become an "infected pimple on their asses". Has
there been any response from the Town regarding the
petitions? I have not heard anything!?
As stated to Mr. Weiss in a response to his email, I
welcome his support and concern, and will make the
meeting. If you think the meeting won't be
productive let me know.
I leave for Florida soon, but will have a lap top with me.
Stan
Stan,
Regarding Anthonys email about a meeting, it looks like
the prevailing wisdom is to take a pass on meeting with
her. I spoke to Willie last night. He thinks meeting
with her would be a sign of weakness and doesn't want to
do it. As he said , "Let her sit in her stew".
if she is feeling pressure to meet with us, not meeting
with her will only cause her more pressure and
strengthen our hand. If she was going to meet with us to
yank our chain some more or throw us a bone, then it
wouldn't have been worth meeting with her.
She knows the issues, she knows what she wants, she
needs to make it happen. Sounds like this is all about
the people who come down there, litter and trespass.
That is an enforcement issue , not the fisherman's
problem. Send enforcement down there, write some
tickets, arrest some people. Those people wont come back
and the word will get out to obey the law at Shoreham
beach, problem solved.
There are many moves in this game, this is only one of
many.
John
Hi Anthony I have meet with many Legislators including the governor of the state of N.Y.. I did not need anyone to meet with them .She is part of the problem and I will not talk to here from weakness or some one else setting the agenda.
I did not curse or yell at her . To suggest that I did does
not sit well with me. We are working on other steps and the
letters will increase . My course and others has been set.
Willie ----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Weiss Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 2:52 pm Subject: Shoreham Beach To: John Cc: jskinner@optonline.net, weakfishin@yahoo.com, fishingstop@msn.com, msawill@optonline.net
> Gentlemen, > > My name is Anthony Weiss, you may know me as Aweiss44 on the > various online fishing sites. I am the vice president of the > Kayak Fishing Association of NY, a group of mainly Long Island > Kayakers. When Brookhaven first shut down Shoreham beach to > anglers, we joined in along with Willy and the rest of the > fishing community making phone calls, writing letters, appearing > in local media, etc, to try and change the fishing ban. > > Throughout that time, a source was giving me snippets of > information about Brookhaven and the reasoning behind their > decisions. ON December 1 he met with Jane Bonner, and > immediately after the meeting emailed me out of the blue, saying > we need to talk. I called him and here's the rundown: > His name is xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. He is a public affairs guy, and > lawyer, working for corporations and political parties. He has > personally worked with Jane several times(business, not > political) and has a pretty good rapport with her. He is also a > surfcaster from long island. In conversation with her one day > he asked what was going on with Shoreham beach, and they > apparently had a lengthy conversation about it. He says that > Jane is not opposed to opening the beach back up to fishing, BUT > there are certain issues that need to be addressed properly to > allow fishing to return. Apparently the local residents and the > town aren't opposed to resuming fishing-provided that the issues > are addressed appropriately. > > Scott also said that Jane wants EVERYONE to be willing to > compromise and act professionally, herself included. There can > be no yelling, no cursing, threatening or anything of the kind. > There can also be no bullheadedness, as we have to be willing to > compromise. It was briefly mentioned that 24/7/365 access may > not be allowed. That is a bridge we have to cross when we get > there, but it's things like that which we need to be able to > compromise on, instead of walking away from the table. > > Apparently due to my posting of updates and letters about > shoreham beach on the internet, Scott reached out to me thinking > I was a major player in the fishing scene. Let's get one thing > straight- I'm not. And Willy, I don't want it to seem like I'm > trying to step on your toes or anyone else's. However, he asked > me to round up a core group of "movers and shakers" in the > fishing community that would work with him(acting as a mediary) > and Jane to resolve this solution. He said the first step would > be meeting with the fishermen to get their side of the story, > since he has only heard Janes side so far. He seems fair, and > that he wants to get access restored. He is also meeting with > another attorney to get some clarification on the Public Trust > Doctrine, that we may be able to use to our advantage. > > I don't personally know anyone of you except for one fellow in > my club. The names on this email are John Russell(KFA), John > Skinner, Tom Farrell, Stan Henschel from Rocky Point Fishing > Stop, and Willy Young. I think everyone of you has some major > assets that we can use to effectively restore access to shoreham > beach, but we have to work together and professionally. > > If you guys are interested, please respond back to me and let me > know. If you are available, Wednesday the 10th my club is > having a holiday party at the sportfishing center in > Babylon(where MSA and LIBBA have meetings). I'll be there from > 7-930 if you guys want to talk a bit about everything. > Otherwise I don't think i'd be able to get west for a few > weeks(I live in East Hampton), but John Russell can take my > place for anything that would need to be done. > > I hope we can all get this done. > > Best regards, > > Anthony Weiss > KFA-NY
Hi John,
I wish I could be more optimistic, however, I firmly believe the
town has no plans to help either the fishermen or beach
associations with the enforcement issue, or open Shoreham to
fishing. We went to the meeting with all good intentions of the
town helping both parties involved with workable solutions to
the enforcement and access issues. The only good I saw were the
solutions that the property association came up with in order to
allow local fishermen to use the beaches. We are both on the
same plane with these issues. But, that does not help the other
450,000 tax payers get access to the public domain. I would
like to state that I met Dave Ramondo and Chris Catan, both of
Shoreham, who were miss represented by various news articles.
They are both supportive of the local anglers, but have, like
us, issues with the "element" on the beaches that leave garbage
and vandalize property. I saw pictures of garbage on the beaches
that reminded me of a land fill and lean twos that were built
out of trees that were cut down from residents property. They
are both articulate and friendly men that have solid, workable
solutions to our access problems. I look forward to working
with them. It's a shame that the town does not have the
initiative that the beach associations have.
John Skinner was nice enough to make time from his schedule
to attend the meeting with me. He lives in Riverhead which has
a workable solution to parking and access issues. As John was
bringing up viable input to some of the problems, Jane Bonner
chimes in and insults him. You can only guess how embarrassing
that was to me. I have lost all respect for her and will do all
I can next election year to have her removed. I feel she
showed ignorance and insensitivity to the fishermen. She kept
stating that the beach was designated by the town as a non
fishing beach and always was. Then start proceedings to make it
a fishing beach and access point that does not conflict with
swimmers. It seems simple enough to me. The BBCA, fishermen and
associations were addressing the issues looking for solutions,
but the Town couldn't or did not want to come through. She was
very angry about some of the posts on the NESW blog about her,
and especially the posting of her address, which I agree was
wrong. She also mentioned comments made by "egore" and "tiderunner"
that got under her skin. Thank god someone from the town said
that her comments had nothing to do about the Shoreham issues
and we resumed the meeting in an orderly fashion.
Trying another angle, I mentioned that my and other businesses in the community lost a lot of money this summer by keeping non resident fishermen from Manhattan, Queens, Nassau and Suffolk from utilizing the beaches. These are the people, "tourist", who ran our economy before the building boom started 25 years ago. What now! I guess the town doesn't see it coming. Also, the problem with "the element" escalated because they just stopped fishing Shoreham and moved into all the private areas. Seems pretty stupid, doesn't it.
All in all I came away from the meeting disappointed, realizing
that there has to be changes made for the wants of the majority
of Brookhaven's and the State's constituents. This is a terrible
administration. If the residents and the fishermen are in
agreement why can't the town help with solutions? I always
believed in trying to solve problems by intelligent rather than
radical means. However, as Willie Young said "let Stan be the
nice guy, but it probably won't work" hit home. I realize now
that it is like talking to a brick wall. They just don't get it!
Reviewing the blog on the NESW web site, I realize there has
been a lot of solid input from passionate people as ourselves,
some a little radical or could have been stated in a different
way, however, in between the lines, it makes The Town of
Brookhaven look like clowns.
"PUBLIC TRUST DOCTRINE" here I come!
Stan
<<On Friday, October 3rd, I attended a meeting held at Brookhaven Town Hall to address the fishing ban on the Brookhaven Town beaches in the vicinity of the Shoreham Town Beach. I believe Friday’s meeting was held at the request of the Brookhaven Business Community Alliance (BBCA) leader Joe Kessel, and that request was made after the BBCA’s meeting held in Rocky Point on September 16 in which all in attendance who spoke showed a desire to keep Shoreham Beach open and to allow fishing access. I attended the September 16 meeting. Although I live in Riverhead Town, just past the eastern border of Brookhaven Town, I attended because I wanted to stay informed on the issue so that I could accurately report on it in my surf column. When it became clear that everyone speaking was on the same page and that enforcement of existing laws, especially regarding littering, was a major issue, I spoke to the audience about how Riverhead Town handles the situation. Stan Hentschel, the longtime owner of Rocky Point Fishing Stop, was at the meeting, and felt that the information I had to offer regarding Riverhead Town’s management of their beaches was useful and might be of interest to Brookhaven Town officials. When the October 3rd meeting at Town Hall was organized, Stan invited me to be one of two representatives from the fishing community. I’ve known Stan for 35 years, and would never hesitate to help him, but I expressed to him my concern that I’m not a Brookhaven resident. He indicated that he still wanted me there because he wanted me to share my Riverhead Town beach access management information with the Brookhaven Town officials. I did not ask to be part of the October 3rd meeting, but I agreed to Stan’s request. I have absolutely no interest in fishing any Brookhaven beaches. In attendance at the meeting, to the best of my recall, were Joe Kessel and Stan representing the Business Alliance. David Raimondo representing the Shoreridge Hills residents, a gentleman representing another group of local residents, an attorney from the Town’s Law Dept, Mr. Morris – the head of the Park’s Dept., a representative from Public Safety (#2 man, I think), Jane Bonner – the Councilwoman for that area, and one of her aides. I was the representative of the fishing interests. Another fisherman was supposed to be there but couldn’t make it due to a family illness. Although Stan was there as a Business Alliance representative, I think we can picture him with two hats and consider him as a second fishing representative. The meeting started with Stan detailing the tens of thousands of dollars the loss of beach access has cost his business. I then offered the following information regarding how Riverhead deals with beach access. Since the elimination of fishing access in eastern Brookhaven Town, many people seeking to fish have moved onto the Riverhead beaches, and this includes the large immigrant population that was cited in both meetings as being responsible for the majority of the litter that resulted in the loss of beach access. They come by the vanload – entire families from numerous townships. How does Riverhead respond? They let them and everyone else fish. If you’re a resident, $15 for a beach lot permit and a free night fishing permit will get you 24/7/365 access to Riverhead’s roughly 15 miles of beaches from 8 access points. If you’re a non-resident, there are two options. You can buy a $200 parking permit that will cover you for the year. I see many of those in the beach lots. You can also buy a $35 daily permit. Although that sounds expensive to me, I see a lot of those too. To facilitate access, Riverhead Town makes beach-parking permits available at places such as tackle shops and delis. So the policy helps local businesses by generating some foot traffic in the stores. Contrast this with Brookhaven’s policy that costs Stan tens of thousands of dollars. So how does Riverhead deal with all of those people that now have legal access to the beach? – simple – they enforce the laws by having a police officer on an ATV ride the beach from border to border. When people who may be predisposed to doing something illegal, like littering, see a uniform and a badge, their behavior changes. If you park in a beach lot without a permit, expect a $100 ticket on your windshield. How do they allow 24-hour beach parking without the lots becoming partying hangouts – simple again – if you don’t have a night fishing permit and you’re doing something other than fishing – you get a $100 ticket too. Between all of those $100 tickets, $200 seasonal non-resident passes, $35 non-resident day passes, and $15 resident passes, Riverhead Town collects a substantial amount of money that can then support the cop on the ATV. Nobody is trying to split an atom here. This is a common sense approach to beach access management, and it works even with the addition of displaced people from Brookhaven. My question to the Brookhaven officials was “Tell me why you can’t do something like this?” Sadly, I saw little interest on behalf of the Brookhaven Town officials in pursuing such an approach. There were many excuses. Here are a few. “Brookhaven Public Safety only has jurisdiction in the parks themselves, and not outside the park boundaries”, “we don’t have the money”, “we don’t have the staff”, “the beaches outside the park are the responsibility of County police”, “how will we get the ATVs on the beach?”, “we can’t ride the ATVs on people’s private beaches”, “our beaches are geologically different than Riverhead’s” (by this the person was referring to bluffs and jetties, just like we have in Riverhead). I urged taking a higher-level view of the issue and consider the entire 15-mile stretch of Brookhaven North Shore frontage instead of focusing on just Shoreham. But heard back “all of those other places are private”. At the September 16 meeting, a lady brought up the possibility of the Town using some land it owns in Rocky Point (old Pickwick Property?) to provide fishing access. Everyone at that meting thought that was an excellent suggestion. When Stan brought that up at Friday’s meeting, Jane Bonner acknowledged the Town land there, but said, “there’s no beach access there”. To which Stan replied, “Then make some”. To which Bonner responded “But the Tides are right next to there!” (The Tides is another beachfront residential community). That exchange was a good representation of Bonner’s attitude that the beaches are private property, and that even allowing fishing access across Town-owned land in the vicinity of residential beach communities is unacceptable. The word “private” was spoken by her many times in the meeting. She said fishermen should be asking private property owners for fishing access, as she did in this quote from an article in the September 19th North Shore Sun, “Ms. Bonner suggested the fishermen reach out to private property owners and request permission to fish on their beaches…Ms. Bonner said the fishermen would be trespassing should they walk across town property.” At one point during the meeting, Jane Bonner said (referring to me) that my presence at the meeting made her uncomfortable and that she found me to be “confrontational”. Yes, I confronted them with one township’s solution, but was told that Brookhaven’s situation is “unique”. When Bonner complained that someone on an online forum called her a criminal, I quickly pointed to her quote in the Sun where she said fishermen on Town property were trespassing. When she shot down Stan’s request for access through the Pickwick property because it was next to the Tides, I blurted out “That’s irrelevant!” It is irrelevant. I told them that when I stand on a beach below the high water mark and look along the shoreline, all I see is beach. I don’t give a damn who owns the property on the top of the bluff. I fish, kayak, scuba dive, and skin dive all along the beaches from Wading River to Orient Point without ever having to think about whose beach I’m on, because I know whose beach I’m on, OUR BEACH! She may call me confrontational, but as long as I have a pulse, I’m not going to sit politely and quietly and be told that I have to ask permission of shorefront property owners to do what I love and have grown up doing. A few other points. They didn’t want to talk about the Public Trust Doctrine, and were generally dismissive of it. Through all of this, no one has yet to tell me precisely which Brookhaven Town code will be violated should you park legally at the Shoreham Town Beach, walk below the high water mark beyond the park boundary, and then go fishing. I think there is going to be a closed meeting among Brookhaven officials regarding beach access and then another similar to what we just had, but I’m not positive on that. After meeting the beachfront community representatives, it’s clear to me that they are not our problem. I’ve read numerous letters from Mr. Raimondo to the local papers that made him sound like an enemy to the fishermen. I don’t feel this way at all after meeting him. The most positive aspect of this meeting came after the meeting broke up and Stan, Raimondo, myself, and the other property association representative (sorry, can’t remember the name) spoke amongst ourselves. These people don’t seem to care if there are local surfcasters on the beaches. Their issue is with the very large number of immigrants trashing their beaches. They had many pictures, and they told us they begged the Town for help enforcing the litter laws. Please refrain from bashing any of the residents on the discussion boards. What you write on these boards is read by Bonner. Bonner mentioned Tom Farrel’s name several times. Both resident representatives knew I had written a book about surf fishing, so I guess they were on the boards too. I’ve done what Stan asked me to do – I presented Brookhaven Town officials with a solution that works in neighboring Riverhead Town. My position is that the taxpayers of Brookhaven Town are entitled to 24/7/365 access to their beaches. Even if the Town restricted that access to only its residents and didn’t offer non-resident access, I would feel that these efforts have been successful. Unfortunately, I don’t see that kind of access as a possibility in the current Brookhaven Town political climate. It’s time for a Brookhaven resident to take my place at any further meetings. Something on a small scale may be able to be worked out that will benefit a few local casters. I thank God I don’t live in Brookhaven Town.
Thanks to all that attended Tuesdays meeting. For the first time in 34 years I think it went very well. Was well organized and got right down to business resolving a lot of issues between the fishermen and beach associations. We all seem to stand on the same ground now concerning Shoreham Beach and related access issues.
As it stands now we have a closed meeting Friday 10/3. There will
be the Parks and Recreation Department, Public Safety, Jane Bonner,
Town Attorney, etc. present. I have John Skinner coming to
represent the fishermen. He lives in riverhead now, but is very
familiar with the issues, and lives in a town that has a workable
access policy. Maybe Brookhaven can emulate that. Two
representatives form the Beach Associations will be there along with
Joe Kessel and myself representing the Brookhaven Businessmen and
Community Alliance.
Will keep everybody posed Stan
Since Labor Day , the town has completely closed Shoreham Beach for the season. There is no fishing, no boating, no swimming, the beach is CLOSED. It has never been this way in past years. It seems like the local politicians and residents have taken this one step further in trying to turn public beaches private. Their first attempt at this was thinly veiled by banning fishing by using real or imagined issues. Now it is 100% clear what they are trying to do by closing this beach to everyone. We can not let this stand. There is a meeting on September 16th at the VFW Hall in Rocky Point on King Road (2nd right off Broadway from 25A going north) at 7PM. This meeting will be attended by local politician Jane Bonner, various civic associations from the beach area, the Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance and anyone else who wants to attend from the public. If you care about your rights as a fisherman and taxpayer, whether you fish here or not , please attend this meeting and make yourself heard. We especially need residents from the town to attend. This can be an emotional issue for some, so if you attend the meeting please conduct yourself in a professional, respectful manner. Hopefully the town is willing to work this issue out , if not we will have to move forward with other political and legal options. If anyone has any questions please PM me. John
Let us fish Wading River To the Editor: The article "Gone fishin' somewhere else" that appeared in the July 25 issue of The North Shore Sun made numerous references to the beaches adjoining the Shoreham Town Beach as "private beaches." It should be clarified that beachfront property owners own only the land above the Mean High Water Mark (MHWM). This line is calculated by an average of all high tides, including the unusually high tides that occur near the full and new moons, and the often very high storm-driven tides. Since these extreme highs are averaged in, the MHWM is well above the weed line that is deposited by typical high tides. The beach below the MHWM belongs to the state, and the public's right to access it is protected under the Public Trust Doctrine. The Public Trust Doctrine is a legal principle derived from English Common Law. The essence of the doctrine is that the waters of the state are a public resource owned by and available to all citizens equally for the purposes of navigation, conducting commerce, fishing, recreation, and similar uses. This trust is not invalidated by private ownership of the underlying land. Note the reference to "fishing." Although it is certainly reasonable to prohibit fishing in a bathing area in a park during the bathing season, fishing cannot be prohibited outside of the park boundaries below the MHWM. In a letter to the Kayak Fishing Association of New York dated June 27, Brookhaven Town Supervisor Brian Foley made this clear when he wrote "As to fishing at the Town's Shoreham Beach, I have been informed by our parks department that the area to either side of the bathing area is allowed for fishing purposes." This statement from the town's highest official, helps make it clear that if someone parks legally in the Shoreham Town Beach parking lot, and then walks beyond the park boundary while staying below the MHWM, no laws will be broken. The article identifies litter as a major problem at Shoreham Beach, and implies that litter was a contributing factor to enforcement of the fishing ban. The litter problem hasn't been limited to Shoreham, and it's a disgrace. But this is an illegal activity that should be combated with enforcement of our laws and perhaps educating the growing segment of our society that seems to think it's OK to use our beaches as a garbage dump. Other townships are dealing with the litter problem without restricting beach access. Law-abiding, taxpaying citizens of the Town of Brookhaven deserve the same consideration. John Skinner No fishing a good thing Shoreham To the Editor: The subtitle of the article "Gone fishin' somewhere else" in the July 25 issue of The North Shore Sun was "fishermen want to return to Shoreham," but it sounds to me as though they should not have been there in the first place. Apparently, fishing has always been prohibited by Town of Brookhaven code at all beaches and parks. This code, I'm sure, was written to protect the safety and welfare of the residents of Brookhaven. I have to say that I have seen firsthand what happens when this code is not enforced. Several years ago, and as recently as last year, Shoreham Beach was a veritable dumping ground for anything and everything that the masses of fishermen brought down with them. My children, and those of my neighbors, have played on the beach among boxes of empty bait containers, rusted lures and hooks and dead fish that were caught small and used for bait. In 2006 and 2007 I witnessed garbage left by fishermen and their families, empty Styrofoam containers and plastic utensils. There were plastic bags tied to trees in the bluffs to mark where rotten little dinghies were hidden in the tall grass. Families were lying in sleeping bags up in the bluffs. A fisher walked by several of our families and threw the wrapper from her sandwich not 15 feet from where we were. When we asked her, nicely, if she would pick that up, she said something I didn't understand, but her face expressed just how angry she was at us for having the nerve to care about our beach. I could go on, but let me express how different it is now that this code is being enforced. I now see families down at Shoreham Beach enjoying this beautiful resource that we town resident have. The beach is clean and, for the most part, garbage gets put in trash cans. My neighbors and I have little fear of our children stepping on a rusted hook or a dead fish. Quite frankly, Shoreham Beach is back and is once again a great place to bring your kids and families. Thanks goes to the concerned residents of this area and the town officials, Jane Bonner and Jim LaCarrubba to name a few, who cared enough about "we the people" to enforce a long-standing code and make this resource special for all of us once again. Rob Keller I'm still fishing Shoreham To the Editor: I am a surf fisherman and I read with great interest your article regarding the ban on surf fishing on Shoreham Beach. I am a lifelong resident of the Shoreham-Wading River area. I have fished these beaches since childhood. My father fished these same beaches and so did my grandfather (long before the power plant). When I was a member of Boy Scout Troop 161 in Shoreham, I was involved with a number of conservation projects to prevent erosion along the bluffs and preserve natural habitat in the Shoreridge Hills area and St. Joseph's Villa (again before LILCO). As a teen, I worked as a lifeguard and when I was a member of the Wading River Fire Department I worked with other men in the community to preserve and protect the lives and property of those who live near or on the beach. I have done more to preserve the beach than many of the property owners in the area. Most of the surf fishermen I know are respectful of the beach, as it is part of the public trust for the benefit of all people. Like myself, they carry out what they carry in and even pick up litter to protect the wildlife and people that come to use this resource. The only thing we leave behind are our tracks below the mean high water mark and even those are washed away at the next high tide. Government officials have restricted the size and the amount of the fish I may catch. Now these political hawks are trying to tell me I cannot fish there anymore. I'll be darned if I let that happen. I will continue to fish these beaches when I want and where I want. No one is going to stop me from my right to public access. I taught my children to fish on these beaches. I taught them to respect the outdoors the same way my grandfather taught me. I am now a grandfather myself and when my 3-month-old granddaughter is big enough to hold a fishing rod, I'll teach her, too. In the meantime, you can find me on the beach below the mean high water mark at the next full moon. I'll be fishing for stripers, just like my grandfather taught me. Chris Becker received this from Morris today :
Dear Mr. Russell,
Mr. Russell,This letter is written in response to your inquiry regarding fishing at Shoreham Beach, an issue that has received a great deal of attention during the summer months. Shoreham Beach is a Town bathing beach and fishing has never been permitted at this facility. In fact, Section 10-11 of the Brookhaven Town Code specifically forbids fishing at Town beaches for obvious safety reasons. While the shoreline of the beach extends for a significant distance both to the east and west of Shoreham Beach, the land on either side of the Town's beach is private property and the owners have asked the Town to inform our residents that trespassing is not allowed on their beach. I have taken the liberty of enclosing a list of Town of Brookhaven designated fishing areas on both the North and South Shores, where fisherman can safely cast their lines from the shore or Town fishing piers.
Commissioner Morris,
I received your letter today in response to my questions and
comments on the ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach. Thank you for
taking the time to respond to me, I appreciate it. I have some
follow-up questions for you, if you could please address these I
would appreciate it.
You state that fishing has never been permitted at this beach.
People have been fishing here for years, why now is Brookhaven
enforcing this town code ?
Why do you say there are obvious safety concerns ? The beach here is
extensive and the allowable bathing area is roped in and patrolled
by lifeguards. How are fisherman who are fishing outside of the
designated bathing areas causing a safety issue ? Have there been
any documented incidents in the past of fisherman injuring bathers ?
Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people indicating fishing is
allowed outside of the designated bathing area, what you are saying
contradicts this. Can you please explain this ?
Numerous sources have said the real reason the beach has been closed
to fishing is littering issues, is this the case ? How do you know
fisherman have done this ? If so, shouldn't law enforcement ticket
these individuals ? Banning fishing completely because of the
actions of a few individuals is not the answer. Does the Town of
Brookhaven ban driving because some people are speeding or driving
drunk ?
Are you and the Town of Brookhaven familiar with the Public Trust
Doctrine ? People are allowed to fish and be on the beach up to the
mean high tide mark, so the beach the residents think is "theirs" is
not "theirs". Access must be provided to these beaches. The town has
stated that anyone who even comes onto the beach with a fishing rod
will have Public Safety called on them. First of all possessing a
fishing rod is not illegal and second , the Public Trust Doctrine
allows for access to the beach. The Town of Brookhaven is violating
the Public Trust Doctrine.
Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water and banning
fishing, I suggest the Town attack the real problem here. Tax paying
residents are being deprived of the resources they pay for and this
ban is having a negative impact on the local economy. If littering
is an issue , utilize the enforcement and cleaning services that tax
payers are paying for. I would also suggest working with fishing
organizations to do beach clean-ups if needed. Many organizations
sponsor beach clean-up outings and fisherman work to clean up the
beaches. Real fisherman are not the problem here, in fact most real
fisherman do not leave litter and are excellent stewards of the
beach and sea.
Regards,
John Russell
Thank you for your follow up e-mail. I have taken the liberty of forwarding your e-mail to the Law Department and our Town Attorney for their review. Most of the questions are in legal in nature and I would like to have them follow up with you directly. Once again, thank you for your concern and opinions. Councilwoman Jane Bonner >>> <EGOER@aol.com> 7/15/2008 10:18 AM >>> Dear Councilwoman Bonner, Thank you for taking the time out to reply to my email. You are to be commended for your contributions to society and making Brookhaven a better place to live for your constituents. But your actions on behalf of the few wealthy beachfront property owners only serve a small few and not the public at large. Banning fishing at Shoreham beach is misguided and illegal. This action is having a negative impact on all tax paying residents of Brookhaven from a quality of life standpoint and having a negative impact on the local economy. I am aware of the letter from Supervisor Foley which states fishing is legal outside the designated bathing area. Why are there "No Fishing " signs posted in multiple places at the beach ? Why are lifeguards telling people there is no fishing ? Why have lifeguards been instructed to call the police if someone on the beach possesses a fishing rod ? Is it illegal in the United States of America to possess a fishing rod ? Does Shoreham have it's own laws that are contrary to the law of the land. Those beaches belong to everyone, not just the wealthy property owners who would like keep "undesirables" off of "their" beaches. There are miles and miles of beaches there that can be shared by everyone. Fisherman have no desire to fish near the designated swimming area. It is not safe and no fisherman would do this, so banning fishing at a swimming beach just appears to be smokescreen to keep as many people off the beach and out of the area as possible. Are there any documented cases of swimmers being injured by fisherman ? I highly doubt this. I have also heard that Shoreham has a homeless problem, so they banned fishing. I find it impossible to believe that a rich beachfront community has a homeless problem. How does banning fishing help solve this problem ? If banning fishing solves a homeless problem, then I suggest you get on the phone with the mayors of major cities in the United States and let them know you have a solution to their problem. Mayor Bloomberg , we have a solution to the homeless problem, just ban fishing in NYC !! Many fisherman are very angered by this short-sighted , self serving , illegal ban on fishing. There are many organized groups who represent fisherman and actions like yours only serve to increase people's resolve. Word of these illegal action has spread very quickly amongst the fishing community and people are taking action. Fisherman and their friends vote and are surely not going to look positively on anyone associated with this ban. I urge you to do the right thing and restore fishing at Shoreham Beach. Hopefully this can be done without a legal challenge, but I assure you this issue will not die until the ban is removed. I personally am spreading the word on this to everyone I know in Brookhaven. As word spreads on this issue amongst the people of Brookhaven, Long Island and beyond, those associated with banning fishing on this beach are not going to be looked upon kindly. There is no legitimate , moral or legal basis for this ban and anyone aside from the wealthy few who live near the beach will surely see this. Sincerely Yours, John Russell Hi John,
Thanks for the support! I can use all I can get.
I just cannot believe the audacity of Brookhaven's town board! Who gives
them the right to usurp our rights to beaches we pay such high taxes on???
Stan
To voice your opinion email at this link:http://www.brookhaven.org/OfficeoftheSupervisor/BrianXFoley/tabid/197/Default.aspx
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=990
CCA Supports Legislation for Hatteras
Island Access
The Coastal Conservation Association North Carolina believes all anglers should have reasonable access to public lands and waters to pursue the sport of fishing by both boaters and shore based anglers whether walking or in off road vehicles (ORVs). The Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreation Area (CHNSRA) was established over 50 years ago with the expressed intent of the Congress and the National Park Service to allow the public access to beach recreational opportunities. These include walking and driving on the beaches of the CHNSRA. This park was uniquely and explicitly set aside as a recreation area.
Recently, a few well financed, private organizations, namely the Audubon
Society, the Defenders of Wildlife and the Southern Environmental Law Center
have taken away the rights and privileges of the users of the CHNSRA under
the guise of protecting birds and turtles. They have specifically targeted
fishermen, vacationing families and pedestrian beach goers who use four
wheel drive vehicles to deny their access to the best beaches and surf
fishing locations on the East coast. They have not done this through an
open, public participatory process but through a lawsuit and closed door
legal maneuvering that is unfounded in fact. Now, nearly all access to the
public beach areas is lost!
To remedy this situation, Senator Elizabeth Dole and Senator Richard Burr
have introduced a bill in the U. S. Senate that would reinstate the interim
ORV management plan that was previously put in place by the National Park
Service (NPS). Representative Walter Jones has introduced a similar bill in
the U. S. House of Representatives. These bills provide species protection
consistent with the Endangered Species-Act. The enactment of these bills
will return the management of ORVs in CHNSRA to the professionals in the NPS
and not leave it in the hands of the environmental extremists.
CCA NC needs your voice to tell Senators Burr and Dole you support Senate
Bill S-3113. Tell your U. S. Representative you support House Bill HR-6233.
We need bipartisan support of this bill to right the wrongs that we
currently suffer under the egregious consent decree approved by Federal
Judge Terrence Boyle.
Please pass this information along to your fishing friends in North Carolina
as well as those from other states. Help us restore our access to the
beautiful beaches and great surf fishing of the CHNSRA. These extremist
won't stop here if we don't take action.
Click the link below to contact the appropriate Elected Officials on this
issue.
Click the link below to log in and send your message: http://www.votervoice.net/link/target/ccanc25099182.aspx
----- Original Message ----- Message: Bill,
Dear Mr. Hentschel:
Thank you for your recent e-mail. By copy hereof, I am forwarding it to our
Commissioner
of Parks Edward Morris and our Commissioner of Public Safety Anthony Gallino
for their
review and response.
Sincerely,
Kathy Kocher
>>> <stan@fishingstop.com> 6/9/2008 2:16 PM >>> Send Email To: Town of Brookhaven Your Name: Stanley Hentschel Your Email: stan@fishingstop.com Your Number: 1-631-744-8330 Address: 53D Broadway Rocky Point, NY 11778 Subject: beach closure-no access, tickets
http://www.joincca.org/eNewsletter/August 2007/Lateral Lines 0807.htm
To: Long Island Beach Buggy Association
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mail to:
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