PUBLIC TRUST DOCTRINE-SHORE MANAGEMENT         PUBLIC FISHING RIGHTS

Nor'East Saltwater Discussion Board about Shoreham Beach

Results of the 10/3/2008 Brookhaven Town Meeting

http://www.noreast.com/discussion/ViewTopic.cfm?page=1&startrow=1&topic_ID=117674

On Line Petition:

 

This is priceless!

A SHOREHAM FISHERMAN SPEAKS OUT

           A FISHERMAN SPEAKS OUT                                                   

BELOW IS A LOG OF EMAIL ABOUT THE SHOREHAM ISSUE STARTING WITH THE LAST CORRESPONDENCE , ENDING WITH THE FIRST BACK IN APRIL OF 2008:

6/30 late PM-
As you all know we ran into some set backs with the opening of Shoreham beach. However a short while ago the Town of Brookhaven Parks Commissioner Eddie Morris called and informed me that Shoreham beach is infact open for fishing to both residents and non residents during the daytime. The beach has been added to the night fishing permit as well. He sounded very sincere and apologized to me about the blunder which occurred over this past weekend. I explained to Eddie that life guards were turning people away from the beach that were in possession of fishing gear, and they they were warning people that they had specific instructions to call Code Enforcement if anyone was to attempt to fish from the beach. He once again apologized to me and stated that none of that should have ever happened. When I asked him when can we expect to have the booth manned and open at 5am he told me that it should be open at 5 tomorrow morning. He also informed me that the stickers are not ready yet, however the attendants will be checking peoples identification and granting them access. If there any issues he welcomed me to call him anytime so he can take care of it right away. Hopefully this will be the end of any major issues over there. If there are any kinks along the way we will work through them as well. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me anytime. Last but not least thank you to all of you for your support. Issues like this would not be overcome without all of your support.
 
Thank You,
 
Tom Farrell
Secretary - New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
631-840-7199
6/30PM-
I sent Matt to Shoreham beach to find out what is going on.  He said he spoke to a young kid at the gate and was told he was given instructions to let in fishermen, residents and non residents, in until 9 PM.  he didn't know if the beach opened at 5 AM, or anything about the night fishing permit

6/30-
As many of you already know, we have once again run into a hurdle over at Shoreham Beach. The beach did not open for fisherman as scheduled like we were told by Supervisor Mark Lesko. There is all types of speculation floating around. I contacted Mark via a text message on Saturday regarding the issue and he replied that he will take care of the problem. I left a few message with the Parks Commissioner Eddie Morris as well. He has yet to reply. I feel that he may be the one behind this. However we do not have all of the facts yet. Once we do we will keep all of you informed. At this point there is nothing we can do until we have our facts straight. Once we do we will know if which direction we need to take if any at all.
 
Thanks,
 
Tom Farrell
Secretary - New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing inc.

I believe the Supervisor before I believe some person at the lot with no name. They might mean the Park Commissioner, We will find out soon
Willie
This is absolutely outrageous !! Not only are people being told fishing is not allowed, they are being denied access to a public park because they are in possession of a fishing rod !!!
 
Willie - calm me down, please :)! I know you have been thru this nonsense before, but this is outrageous to me. it was bad enough yesterday me and my father were made to feel like criminals because we had the audacity to go fishing.
 
This is certainly not Leskos fault. Maybe this will blow over fast, but someone in that town needs to pay the price for this outrageous behavior !!
 
Ok, time for me to take a deep breath !!
 
In a message dated 6/28/2009 10:44:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
Hi John,
 
Nothing changed.  My customers are going to the beach and being refused access if they have fishing rods with them.
 
One Customer questioned not being able to fish and was told he was given strict orders from the supervisor (Morris????) not to allow any fishing, both today and yesterday.????
 
Stan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Shoreham fishing decal



----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:36 AM
Subject: Shoreham fishing decal

Just came back from attempting to get my Shoreham fishing decal at the Shoreham Brookhaven Beach, as of 9:30 AM the gate is locked and there are no signs of any activity. 
 
"The more things change, the more they stay the same."
 
Charlie

6/17
In a message dated 6/17/2009 3:06:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:

June 17, 2009

Mark Lesko, Brookhaven Town Supervisor

1 Independence Hill

Farmingville, NY11738

Dear Supervisor Lesko,

I would like to personally congratulate you on becoming supervisor, and thank you for doing the right thing by opening our Shoreham Town Beach to fishing as in the past.

 

My name is Stanley Hentschel and I have owned and operated the Rocky Point Fishing Stop for 37 years. I guess you could say I am considered the instigator of the Shoreham beach issue since my business is totally dependant on it. All the small local beaches have little or no access, and without that access point I would have nowhere to send my customers.  You can imagine what the impact was on not only my business, but all of Rocky Point’s business community.  Why would anybody come to Rocky Point, and spend money, if not for the beaches. There is nothing else here. This whole mess which was a total waste of time and energy for the Town of Brookhaven in these recessionary times should never have occurred.  What is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong.

 

Thank you again, and you can count on me for any support.  Since I have been coming to this area for fishing since 1962, and have been a resident and business owner since the early 70’s, I am always available to you for any input concerning fishing, access, etc..

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Stanley L. Hentschel

President

6/16-

I can finally give all of you some very good news. I finally spoke to Supervisor Mark Lesko today. The Town of Brookhaven now has a new policy regarding fishing at Shoreham Beach. As of today Shoreham Beach has been added to Brookhaven’s Night Fishing Permit. Also fisherman will be required to obtain a fishing access sticker for Shoreham Beach for daytime use. This is not a fishing permit or license. It is to determine who is a resident or a non resident. The fishing access sticker will be free to all Town of Brookhaven residents. If you are a non resident you will be able to park in the lot for a fee of $20 and that parking fee will include the sticker. Walk on’s will be permitted for a fee of $10. You will be required to provide valid legal documentation to obtain the sticker. The normal hours of the beach will be extended as well. The beach will be open from 5am to 9pm daily. There will be employees in the booth during those hours. The official opening date for Shoreham Beach is 27 June 2009. However the night fishing permit is currently in effect.

 

     Thank you to everyone who assisted in this effort. If it wasn’t for each and every one of you as individuals this may not have been possible. Each email, phone call, letter sent, petition signed carried a lot of weight in getting Shoreham Beach open to fisherman. This goes to show you what can be done when you are organized and when you stand up for your rights. I also need to thank all of the websites for all of there support. They made it much easier to mobilize everyone in our efforts of regaining access at the beach. Last but not least we also need to thank Supervisor Lesko for all of his support. He has clearly proven that he is a friend of the fisherman and looking out for the best interests of everyone involved. You can all be proud of this victory.

 

     There will be more to follow in the near future. Once again thank you for all of your support.

 

Sincerely,

 

Tom Farrell

Secretary – New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.

weakfishin@yahoo.com

Members of the NYCRF:
 
 
 
     To keep everyone informed please see letter below I presented Mark Lesko (Town of Brookhaven Supervisor ). Also yesterday afternoon Debbie Delgatto and I met in person with Supervisor Lesko. Willy Young was unable to attend as planned due to being in the Hospital for surgery. (Luckily Willy is home now and recovering well).
 

"5/14/2009

 

 

To Town of Brookhaven Supervisor Mark Lesko:

 

 

     On behalf of the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing we would like to congratulate you on your great success becoming the new Town of Brookhaven Supervisor. We look forward to a continuous and positive working relationship with you and the Town Board.

 

     As discussed throughout your campaign for election we have several things we would like to work along with you regarding recreational fishing in the Town of Brookhaven . Below is a list of requests we would like to start off with.

 

1.        We strongly urge you to re-open the access of Shoreham Beach to recreational fisherman for day and night use. Also we would like the No Fishing sign to either be removed or modified as soon as possible. (A notation on the sign of no fishing within the bathing area is acceptable). Additionally we would like Shoreham Beach to be added to the already existing Brookhaven Night Fishing Permit.

 

2.        We would also like to request establishing a Fishing Advisory Board for the Town of Brookhaven . We would like the board to meet with the Town Board 3 – 4 times per year to help the town with any recreational fishing related problems or issues. The recreational fisherman we would like to appoint to the advisory board are named as follows: Mike Lang who resides at 41 Lombardi Dr. Smith Point 631-617-5067, NY 11967, Debbie Delgatto of 19 Hazel Ave. Farmingville NY 11738 631-372-7167 and Vito Orlando of 14 Longleaf Ln. Medford NY 11763 631-289-5081.

 

3.        We would like to request either a key or card system for parking during night time access. This system was successful at other locations in the past and to the best of our knowledge is already in place at the Town of Brookhaven dog run. The New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing would be open to giving the Town financial assistance in installing such a system.

 

4.        We would also like to have bilingual no littering signs posted. They could be constructed of aluminum and measure 16” x 20”. The NYCRF could also assist the town financially in this effort as well.

 

5.        We would also like to request a non resident night fishing permit to be established. This permit could be sold in a limited number, and only for certain locations that can sustain additional people. The fee for the permit could be 2 – 3 times the amount of a residents permit. With the current state of our economy this could only help generate more finances for the Town of Brookhaven . The locations we would like to see added to a night permit for non residents are as follows: Shoreham Beach, Blue Point fishing pier, Cedar Beach fishing pier, West Meadow Beach, Sandspit Marina in Patchogue, Forge River Fishing Pier on Riviera Dr. in Mastic, Stony Brook Fishing Pier, Pine Neck Dock in East Patchogue, Corey Beach in Blue Point, Union Ave. dock in Center Moriches and the Maple Ave. Dock in East Moriches.

 

6.        Last but not least we would like to see additional parking spaces at Hallock Landing road in Rocky point, Woodhull Landing Road in Sound Beach , Landing Road in Miller Place and Hagerman Landing Road in Rocky Point. The parking over at West Meadow beach could be improved as well due to the gate that has been moved.

 

 

     Please keep in mind the New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing and the majority of recreational fisherman are extremely conservation minded. We are more than happy to provide beach clean ups as required from time to time. Thank you very much in advance for all of your support and consideration.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Thomas J. Farrell

Secretary – New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing

weakfishin@yahoo.com

631-840-7199"

 

 

     In my opinion Mr. Lesko was very receptive and appreciative with our requests being completely rational. He thanked us (the NYCRF) for all of the support we had given him during the campaign and election. He also informed me that he has been dealing with the residents in the Shoreham Beach area and has been talking to Jane Bonner as well. Jane wanted to attend our meeting however Mark told her not to be there because he felt it would be counter productive. I feel very confident that he is going to give us what we are looking for. He did not commit to a firm decision on what he plans on doing with Shoreham Beach and the other requests, however he did tell me that he will be making his decision regarding Shoreham within 1 week. (The Beach will be re-opening however the day and night issue has to be worked out with the residents).
    Mark is completely on board for a Recreational Fishing Advisory Board. They will be working on this in the near future. As you read in the letter above they were given the names of the recreational anglers we want on the Board..
    He is heavily in favor of card locking access system for the parks. Mark likes the idea of accountability. When people only see a few cars there for the night and they know their name is on record being there they will be less likely to leave any trash behind or cause any other issues.

     Debbie Delgatto had taken some photographs of the parking areas of the North Shore beaches.. She presented them to Mark so he could clearly see there is a major parking issue. Several of the beaches on the North Shore have plenty of area for parking however there are only a few actual parking spaces while the rest of the street is riddled with no parking signs. Mark will be looking into this situation for us.

     One thing I did not like at the meeting was that he asked me about daytime fishing and permits being related to the day a few times. I was adamant in the fact that fishing during the day is our basic right and that nowhere in the country do you have to file for a permit to fish salt water during the daylight hours.. Fishing during the night may be a privilege that we have to have a permit for but in no way do we need a permit for our basic given rights. He is very clear on what our stance will be.

     Mark brought up to us that he will be going back to talk to the residents who have been reasonable and not the ones who have been completely unreasonable. He thinks our proposal will go over very well with them. Also he did say a few times that he does not believe the Town can legally do anything to prevent us from passing in and out of the beach with fishing gear. So he is thankful that we are being so reasonable with our actions.

     When enforcement was brought up regarding the beaches and parks a poor excuse was given. We were told that the Parks officers are being cut back and that enforcement costs money which they really do not have much of. They do not feel that they can provide enforcement due to today’s lack revenue. It was brought up that SCPD used to patrol those beaches on ATV’s and when they were there they did not have many if any issues. In my opinion they will be looking into some possible help from the County for enforcement.

     Overall the meeting went extremely well. Now he has 1 week left to make his decision. He knows what he has to do and I feel things will go very well.

     I hope this report will be good enough for all. My computer at home has crashed and I am trying to squeak everything in while at work.

 

Thank You,

 

 

Tom Farrell

Secretary – New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.



I agree.  You can take "2 person limit per permit per car when applying for permit" in different contexts.  What if a father wants to take his three children fishing? I don't understand.
 
It may have to do with "1" resident, I doubt if the others even know of this. Maybe Jane is just trying to save face and look as if she is still in control.  In any event she is looking more foolish than ever, and has sealed her fate as far as this Novembers election is concerned. Some of her closest friends and former political supporters are in disagreement with her.  Being in this town since 1962 has given me "eyes and ears" in town hall and on the streets.
 
I'm really interested to see Lesko's response to this. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: (BS)

There is a lot wrong with this aside from everything you mentioned, some of the things in the document I dint like :
 
1) trial basis and revisited
 
2) only 100 permits
 
3) 2 person limit when applying for permit
 
4) fishing allowed only right of the beach. This is outrageous, PTD allows us access to all beaches below the high tide line. This still smacks of the residents wanted to keep the beach private , as to the right there are no homes and to the left are where the homes are.



4/22-
Stan,
 
I will bring this to the Coaltion meeting tomorrow. I am also going to send this to Willie and Tom today.
 
I think just charging fisherman to access the beach is probably illegal, aside from that it will never fly. if swimmers, bathers, etc are allowed to use the beach with no permits , then fisherman should be able to also.
 
John
 
In a message dated 4/22/2009 9:41:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
Hi John,
 
Last night I attended my Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance meeting where we discussed many town issues including the opening of Shoreham Beach.  Attached is a proposal by Jane Bonner which does not stand with me at all.  The BBCA proposed 24/7.   Who does this woman think she is?  a $75 permit for non residents is fine, however, charging residents $25 is criminal. WE ARE TAX PAYERS, doesn't she get it!  I'm sure she is not going to charge swimmers or anyone else who wants to use the park.  Also, what about the night time fishing permit? We pay additional for that privilege too. We have a total of eight parking places that is supposed to satisfy all Brookhaven residents on all of the North Shore of Brookhaven, and not having Shoreham included is just ridiculous. It is a perfect place!
 
This all came from a ECO Tourism Advisory Board meeting in which Chuck Hollins was representing fishermen. I am really appalled. None of us knew anything about it.  A real slap in the face.
 
I hope Lesko knew little of this.  The fisherman's votes are what turned the tide in this election and this is the thanks we get.
 
Stan 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Great Stan, I will see you tomorrow night !
 
In a message dated 4/21/2009 11:19:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
I spoke with Willie last night and it seems Chuck Hollins was at the Town Hall on other business, Lesko was not present, and Scott was just suggesting ideas.
 
I will be attending the Coalition meeting in Babylon this Thursday, however, I may be a little late since I have to close at seven.
 
Stan


4/20/2009-An email I received from Rich (darkskies) at stripersandangers.com who, with the other NJ anglers, have been so helpful and supportive with this issue:


You would be great to be on this committee. I think this committee is really important, we need to get Shoreham back open but that is the tip of the iceberg, access needs to be improved all throughout Brookhaven. The fisherman having seats on this committee is essential for this and also to make sure something like Shoreham never happens again.
 
In a message dated 4/5/2009 12:17:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
Just got back from Florida.  Willie called and informed me of the meeting in two weeks that will cover the opening of Shoreham  and the formation of a Brookhaven fishing committee.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Lesko

Stan,

Lesko called the coalition yesterday to setup a meeting. Stay tuned .....

John


John,
 
I just got a call from Tim Mazzei in response to the email I sent him Saturday.  I was very impressed with his demeanor, and his support for fisherman and the opening of beaches, for fishing, on the North Shore of Brookhaven. He told me I can hold him to his word on these issues if he gets elected.  I never had a politician say that to me in the past 37 years while being involved with the town. Personally he seemed like a very regular, straight up person.  I  have yet to meet him, and unfortunately do not know that much about him, but he did seem very sincere. He, like I, own businesses and discussed other issues that we both stand on common ground with.
 
John, I know it is late, but I would appreciate if you could get this out to the various bloggs.  Tomorrow we vote and our faction should hear this to help make their decision.
 
Stan 


John,
 
below is a email I received from Zeldin, and my reply.
 
Stan
 
 
 
 
 
 
From the Desk of Lee Zeldin
  March 28, 2009  
 
Greetings!

Do me a favor?

In the Special Election for Town Supervisor on March 31st, your vote can truly make the difference. I know Tim Mazzei personally and I can tell you that he is a person of real integrity who truly cares about our town and the people he represents. Many people don't realize that there is a Special Election on Tuesday and as my friend and colleague, I am asking you to vote for Tim at your regular polling place from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. If you would like more information about Tim, visit his website at www.TimMazzei.com I would really appreciate your help and your vote on Tuesday. Give me a ring or send me an email if you have any questions about why I am supporting Tim. Thanks!

Sincerely,


Lee Zeldin

phone: (631) 772-1070
 

 
 
My repley:
 
Dear Mr. Zeldin, 
 
I appreciate your support for Mazzei. However, his stand on the Shoreham issue (no Fishing, access, etc.) left me very skeptical (to close to Jane Bonner's political agenda ).  I can not support a gentleman who has political ties, and indorses, a person who usurps Americans basic rights.  Being a war veteran as you, I voted for you In the last election because I favored your stand on most issues.  I admire young people, as yourself, that want to get involved and make a difference.  Myself, and 8,000 (or there about) fishermen in the Brookhaven township have had our fill of the current and past administrations.  If we sacrificed our well being for this country, why should we be banned from fishing our shores. Especially since it is a racial issue that nobody wants to talk about.  This is not the American way.
 
Sincerely,
Stanley L. Hentschel
 
I have owned and operated the Rocky Point Fishing Stop for 37 years and can be be considered the instigator of this whole mess which is a total waste of time and energy for the Town of Brookhaven under these recessionary times.  What is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong. Until a wrong is made right I will continue this fight.


Hi John,
 
I just found out about the email you sent me about Jane Bonner.  I'm really sorry if I caused you any  grief.  Somehow it got mixed up with that day's email on the Shoreham issues and was inadvertently included with mail I posted on my web site.
 
As I have stated before, I have nothing against  Jane Bonner, she has always been very nice to me.  Over the past ten or so years of knowing her, I personally like her very much. However, her political views on the Shoreham issue is dead wrong and must be made right. She has put a lot of time in on solving problems throughout our community and I applaud her for that. But, this is not the way to solve the Shoreham problem.  It's a shame this issue involving basic rights will probably ruin her political career.  I really didn't want to get involved with this issue since I have been beating my head against the wall with prior corrupt town administrations over access to beaches for more than 30 years now. Hell, I just want to retire.  But, I just can't let this die, and won't retire until all fishing access rights are restored.  As a war veteran it is against everything I went to war and fought for. It's bad for the town economically and dead wrong morally.
 
Again, I'm sorry John, and will publish this to help rectify.
 
Stan 


We have an election coming up the 31st of this month for Town of Brookhaven Supervisor and it is extremely important to get out and Vote. Lesko seems to support fishermen's issues more than Mazzei.  In fact, Mazzei stated at the recent Shoreham Civic Association's meeting that the reason my business and other local businesses' lost sales this past summer was due to the "internet", not because the closure of Shoreham Beach.  If  the beach is closed why in the world would anybody come to Rocky Point to spend their money? All we have is our beaches. And, now because of the slowdown in the building industry, how will our economy be driven??? He obviously does not know what he is talking about. The recession has reduced sales, however, I have weathered recessions three times in the past thirty seven years and that alone will teach you how to run a business. It's pretty simple to me," You can't make money by selling bait and tackle when a town does not allow people, even it's residents, to fish". And if they can't come to fish they certainly are not buying gas, lunch, patronizing other local businesses, or renting for the summer vacation season. Rocky Point started attracting people to it's beaches back in the thirties and that is what built our town. This town has always been dependant on transient business, and without the construction business, will only deteriorate more than it already has under the current administration.


LINK IS A VIDEO TAKEN AT SHOREHAM CIVIC ASSOCIATION MEETING "MAKE YOUR VOTES COUNT"

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:54 AM
Subject: rslmlutch@optonline.net has sent you a link to Yahoo! Video

Forward this to Stan and can you post it on Noreast??


SWRWeekly.com - March 09 Civic Meeting

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4707695?fr=yvmtf


Almost all of the fisherman seem to support Lesko strongly. Lesko actually came out and said open up the beach now !!
 
Mazzei seemed for a compromise , but kept talking about National Grid property.
 
There were about 110 people there, at least 1/2 fisherman. There were about 11 questions, 3 related to fishing. after the 1st fishing question and answer all the fisherman were cheering !!
 
Lesko is the man, Mazzei too tied to Bonner as he mentioned her name several times. Mazzei also said in response to my question on RPFS that he thought your business was off because of on-line sales.
 
go here , a lot of good info on the meeting :
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 3/20/2009 8:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
I should be back about weeks earlier than expected, somewhere between the 9th and 14th of April.
 
Matt, from my store, came across very well on news12.  Bill Scherer is also a good choice since he is well spoken and lives and fishes in Shoreham.
 
Can I get a synopsis of the meeting?  I still don't know which candidate supports our cause. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:55 PM
Subject: SWR weekly

<<Greetings:
SWRWeekly.com would like to do a video story on the Fisherman's plight --- Ideally we'd like to shoot a Shoreham or Wading River fisherman on the beach in Shoreham...Saying a few words on this situation ...
Please have Mr John Russell or fellow fishermen - Contact me here
631-209-2045 or info@swrweekly.com
Kevin Wood, Publisher>>
 
 
Stan,
 
When are you getting back ? You would be a good person for this. if not you , do you know anyone else who is local and well spoken who would be good to do this ? I plan on talking to this guy to see if this is something we should do , but I dont think I would be the right person to actually do this since I am not local.
 
John


Sorry for he confusion Charles !! Glad you are on board with us !!
 
We need to do everything possible to get Bonner out. I dont live in Brookhaven, but Stan gave me my first job and I grew up fishing those beaches. I will do anything and everything possible to help get Bonner kicked out of office.
 
Regards,
 
John
 
In a message dated 3/19/2009 10:45:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, crmuller@optonline.net writes:
Charles Muller did not write that.  He attached that message concerning the deli on Broadway posted on a Newsday message board.  Charles Muller lives in Shoreham, fishes that beach and is fully on board with the movement to re-open access and dump Bonner.  Sorry for any confusion. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: Fw: Fw:

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Fw:

Feel free to pass this along to Charles Muller and anyone else who wants a solution.
 
<<Solution is simple. Open up the beach as it was for years  and enforce the laws. If anyone is breaking the law whether they are white, green, purple, or black, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Once the word gets out that if people do not use the beach responsibly there will be reprecussions, they will either change their behavior or stop coming to the beach. This is a law enforcement issue, not solved by banning fishing. Use the 9 new park rangers they hired to enforce the laws.>>
 
In a message dated 3/19/2009 10:26:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:58 AM

 am all for you fishermen. I always enjoy chatting and seeing the catch of the day. You all are a nice bunch but there has been a bunch of (how do I put it nicely) Mexicans, Guata, etc hanging around the beaches on the north shore. You can thank the Rodriguez Deli on Broadway for this. He allows them to hang out in front of his deli looking for work. After their work day is done they all go to the beaches and fish. They have been thrown out of the NSBPOA because they have cameras and security. They have been peeing on homeowners property and thus now you guys can't fish. I find this very sad. It is like when the basketball hoop was removed at a local park because (as the elected officials put it) a "certain element" was hanging out at the parks.
Really sad for the local father who is a taxpayer and homewoner who wants to shoot some hoops.
What is the solution so you guys can continue to fish?


I submitted a question, President read it off, he also said I recognize this guys name from the blog ( my name was on the sheet of paper), but i wont say his name. he read it word for word. I dont rememeber what the politicians said, they didn't disagree at all, but I believe Mazzei said something to the effect i thought his business was down because of Internet sales.
 
<<

Question # 1

·         Given the state of the economy, what do you say to local businesses who have been negatively affected by the limited beach access in Brookhaven  and the banning of fishing at Shoreham ?

·         One for example, Rocky Point Fishing Stop has been a responsible member of the Brookhaven business community for over 30 years and has had to lay off employees and is considering closing down or moving their business to Riverhead.>>


This morning I received more mail about the meeting than I could ever publish, however, the following should pretty much sum everything up:


Stan,
 
Go here to see some more info on the meeting :
 
 
John

Stan,
 
Almost 50% of the people who showed up were fisherman ! Bonner was there , all accounts had her very upset and unprofessional.
 
We are going to push hard to have even more fisherman there on the 18th !!
 
John

Both Lesko and Mazzei were pretty clueless about the Shoreham issue. Lesko (Democrat) didn't make a statement one way or another on it because he didn't know about it. Mazzei said he would support and work towards access. Neither of them are fisherman or really had any clue as to what was going on. The time was serevly limited with each candidate getting 10 minutes for Q and A and the civic association was sticking to it.
 
At the end of the meeting, Bill Behr (Bonner's neighbor and member of the surf club with me) called her out on the beach issue. She then went on a temper tantrum about how she feels threatened, she locks her doors now, how her house was posted on Noreast, she fears for her life, bla bla bla. Bonner is now claiming that it's a county issue since the county is responsible for the swimming only designation of the beach. When people started asking her to explain on her actions, she pretty much denied responsibility for them and tried blaming it on the county. She said she had no other choice since it was written on the permit as a swimming beach only. Tom Farrel, a member of the coalition, made some good points to her on access, the issue in general, etc.
 
You could definately see that the emails, letters, calls etc have gotten to her regarding Shoreham by the way she acted as well as in her voice. She's absolutely not cut out for politics since she got extremely defensive about anything said to her and raised her voice, cut people off, and had a strong tone to her words. Anyone that asked her questions were calm and not attacking her or being mean, just being blunt about the whole issue.
 
Overall neither candidate took a strong stand on Shoreham. The only one who made me feel somewhat ok was Mazzei since he directly said he'd help, but afterall it's politics so who the fuck knows.
 

Hey Stan---
Jane Bonner stopped by after the civic meeting last night because she "really needed a good strong drink".  The meeting was supposed to be a debate by the Town Supervisor candidates Mazzei and Lesko and don't know why Jane was there (support for Mazzei?).  Anyway, there were a "handful" of fisherman there that were so "nasty they brought her to tears".  Evidently the Parks Dept has deemed the beach swimming only so she is just following the rules.  She don't get it.  I kept pretty quiet.  She said the "Riverhead guy" and 2 guys from Selden and Centereach were there and that they didn't have the right to use the beach.  Isn't Centereach and Selden in Brookhaven Town?  Keep up the fight!

They published my letter in the Times Beacon Record :
 
 
 
I expect my letter to be in North Shore Sun tomorrow. I am going to print out copies from the papers and mail them to the whole town board, alessi , lavalle and Tim Bishop


Newsday 2/22/09


NEWSDAY Feb 22 2009

Michael R. Ebert
February 22, 2009

At Cedar Beach in Mount Sinai, there is a playground and nearby is a sign that reads "private beach ahead." I have heard mothers scold children who crossed that apparent property line, but I believe that either the state or the Town of Brookhaven owns the beach within a few feet of the high tide mark and anyone can stroll the beach within that parameter. Can you check the law?

- Barbara Ludwig-Cull, Port Jefferson Station

OUR reader is correct. In New York State, the public may walk along underwater lands and the "foreshore" - the stretch of beach subject to the ebb and flow of the tides - of privately owned beaches without penalty.

The principle is outlined in the Public Trust Doctrine, a common-law legal precedent that says states hold legal title to lands under tidewater and to navigable waterways in trust for the public's benefit.

"It's actually an issue that comes up a lot," said Steven Resler, a coastal resource specialist for the Department of State's coastal management program. "Traditionally, the 'seaweed line' has been interpreted as the boundary between private property and public trust lands."

According to the law, when the foreshore is covered by the tides the public may use the water for "boating, bathing, fishing, recreation and other lawful purposes," Resler said. When the tide is out, the public may pass and repass over the foreshore as a means of access to reach the water for these purposes, and may also lounge and recline on foreshore lands.

At Cedar Beach, the Crest Hollow Beach Owners Association owns the "upland" - the stretch of beach above the seaweed line - but the public has the right to "traverse the foreshore," Resler said.

Town spokesman Kevin Molloy said similar privately owned beaches exist in Mastic Beach and Rocky Point.


Stan,
 
I sent below letter to North Shore Sun last night, hopefully they print it this week. We need to keep the pressure on.
 
John
 
<<
As the winter starts coming to an end, fisherman across Brookhaven Town and Long Island ready themselves for the upcoming fishing season at the area beaches. Fisherman have been fishing at Shoreham beach for years, but because of the fishing ban instituted last year at the Town of Brookhaven Shoreham Beach by the Town Board, as it stands now , people will not be fishing there this year. In spite of thousands of letters, emails, phone calls, efforts from fishing organizations, swimming organizations, local business groups and meetings with members of the Brookhaven town board, the town board still has not lifted the fishing ban at Shoreham Beach.
The Public Trust Doctrine guarantees people their rights to the beaches. The ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach violates the Public Trust Doctrine. New York State recognizes the PTD and promotes beach access in New York. New Jersey, Connecticut and other states also recognize this and have programs to promote access to the beaches via the Public Trust Doctrine. Why does the Town of Brookhaven not recognize the Public Trust Doctrine? With the economy in dire straits, do the residents of Brookhaven want the town to use their hard earned tax dollars to fight a legal=2 0battle over the rights of people to access Shoreham Beach? The town could be spending taxpayers own money to keep them off the beaches they pay taxes for!
As businesses across Long Island suffer, local businesses suffer also due to this fishing ban. Rocky Point Fishing Stop has been a responsible business in Rocky Point for 35 years, surviving a fire, reduced beach access and down swings in the economy. Now as their business suffers due to this fishing ban at Shoreham Beach, they contemplate going out of business or moving out of the town of Brookhaven. Employees at Rocky Point Fishing Stop are losing their jobs or are having their hours reduced. I thought the current movement in the country is to create jobs and stimulate the economy, not run responsible businesses out of business or out of town.
The people who use the beaches and live in the area deserve clean, trouble free beaches. If there are people who are not using the beaches responsibly and breaking the law, then I am all for enforcing the laws and penalizing the offenders.  But to single out fisherman and ban fishing at these beaches is analogous to banning driving because some people are speeding or running red lights. Brookhaven Town recently used tax payer money to hire Park Rangers. If there are law enforcement issues at20Shoreham Beach, assign the officers to this beach to enforce the laws.
The areas and nation’s economy has crumbled underneath the feet of the politicians who are elected to lead this area and country. Every day the politicians reach into our pockets one more time to help bail out another company and add more to the government that has already failed us. We pay tremendously high taxes to live in Brookhaven Town and Long Island to use such resources as parks and beaches. Yet as our jobs are lost, as our 401ks disappear, one of the things we enjoy most, a day on the beach with our fellow fisherman and children has been taken away from us by the Town of Brookhaven Town Board. This ban cannot be allowed to stand. Fisherman and non-fisherman alike who live in such places as Shoreham, Rocky Point, all of  Brookhaven town, Long Island and beyond are standing up for their rights and will continue to fight until the ban is lifted. Hopefully the politicians soon realize the wants and rights of their constituents and lift this ban.
John Russell
Long Island, New York>>

Stan,
 
Are you available any time this weekend to chat about this ? This is really terrible what Bonner has done to your store.
 
I will be back home at about 1pm today.
 
 
In a message dated 2/21/2009 10:49:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
I don't believe I ever met the man, but he hits the nail right on the head. However, I am between a rock and a hard place.  If something isn't done by spring when I return, I will have to lay off three of my long time employees and basically become a custom fishing rod store rather than a full line fishing tackle shop.  Without the transients, just the local anglers will not cut it.  If the beach was opened tomorrow I would still loose since I did not order inventory based on a transient based season. It will be difficult if not impossible to buy at good prices on the spur of the moment, even if it is available. Because of no access, last year cost me over $65,000.00 in excess inventory, which I personally paid off to keep a good credit rating.  When I explained this to Bonner, who I knew personally for about ten years, she said she was sorry but nothing could be done.  This didn't only hurt me, the whole town was effected in one way or another.  This coupled with the State cutting our season from eight to three and one half months will cause the future of any tackle stores or charter boats on the north shore of Brookhaven to be mathematically impossible to operate.
 
Over the last 35 years of owning my store, the only bad part of it was dealing with dirty politics.  We only have ourselves to blame, since we either do or do not VOTE.  
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Brookhaven update - Tom Farrel

Stan,
 
A very good email from Tom Farrel. Tom is a very good guy , smart and level heaed. He makes a lot of sense.
 
 
Toms email <<
The only reason Jane Bonner is currently somewhat reaching out to us through other people is because our efforts are definitely working. She knows that we are very well organized and massive in numbers. It came out of the mouth of Mr.Foley himself that they know we are very organized. With the election coming we are her worst nightmare. She is dealing in fear and weakness now because she knows tha she was completely wrong by doing what sh has done. She is looking for an easy way out of this now. That is part of the reason Scott Santamaria was campaigning the way he was last night. We all know he did not like me questioning him at all and that he would not let anyone finish speaking that spoke of any opposition to what he and Jane wanted. He is an outsider folks and should be treated as such. After all of the work that we have put in all of a sudden he pops into the picture and wants to look like a Hero with Jane while we give up our rights. There is something very wrong with that picture. I am quite sure that if Stan from Rocky Point was there he would not have been to happy with what Scott was proposing either.
 
Now we all have to be on the same page with this effort and fight together against them! We can't be fighting amongst each other or this will never work. By holding our next meeting in the proper manner any major outbursts should not even have an opportunity to arise. We are the Coalition now not seperate entities.
 
 
"If we do not work WITH the politicians and PLAY the game and get along with EACH OTHER, like RFA and LIBBA and others, we will NEVER get anything accomplished."
 
We always work with the Politicians. (I am new at this but Willy and Chuck have been through Hell and back with these types of issues). We wouldn't have as many politicians on our side up in Albany as we do if we didn't. LIBBA I happen to think extremely highly of. The RFA issues are nothing new. We all have known about this for quite a long time now. Maybe someday that will change.
 
Can you imagine asking an outsider to come and speak about what the 2 of you have been discussing only to have him sing a diferent song once he gets there??? Lets just chalk it off as a bad night and move on from here.



Doug,

Quite obviously Shoreham is a very emotional issue as last night showed.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I fully respect that , but in my humble opinion, approving the motion on the table last night would have been a disaster and one I would not personally support. Trading our basic rights to fish and access the beach for a night fishing permit would be a bad move in this particular situation and set a very bad precedent in general.

People have been fishing at Shoreham beach for years, night and day. One politician comes in and for the benefit of a select few residents, bans fishing. So we are going to make a deal to get our rightful access back that  compromises our basic rights ???

I give Scott credit for coming down and trying to broker a deal. But he has a vested interest in making this problem go away for Jane Bonner. He has a previous working relationship with her and making this problem go away is in her own best interests. Obviously all the letters, phone calls, emails and pressure the fisherman are putting on Brookhaven is bringing Jane Bonner to the table. Do you think if we were not putting a lot of pressure on her she would be willing to deal with us ? Not a chance. Let me ask a question, when Jane Bonner closed the beach, prior to that , did she reach out to the fisherman to work with us to solve this problem ? No she did not, she did the bidding of the local homeowners groups as she promised she was going to close Shoreham Beach to fishing and she did. I think she never expected the outrage from the fisherman and non-fisherman alike.

I have been involved with this situation right from the beginning and devoted a lot of hours of my time spreading the word. I would be more then happy to speak to anyone about this. For those in attendance last night who have not been following this issue, you got a very narrow view of what is going on at Shoreham.

To me it is very simple , restore fishing to Shoreham as it was for years, deploy the park rangers every couple of weeks to enforce the laws and this problem will go away. If the politicians dont see this as a viable solution , then they have other motives behind keeping the beach closed.

I support Willie and believe he is headed down the right path at Shoreham.

Anyone who wants to contact me and discuss this, I respect all opinions and would be happy to do so. We must stick together, we have no chance if the fisherman do not stick together.

 John Russell

The Shoreham Beach issue is no doubt an extremely emotional issue. Not just because of Shoreham itself but due to the entire scope of its nature. What Jane Bonner is trying to do to the Recreational Angler there can spread like wild fire everywhere else if she is to get away with what she is doing. In my opinion Scott Santamaria (correct spelling?) was present at the meeting for his own agenda for his own benefit with his working relationship with Jane Bonner. I for one would not trust him at all negotiating any sort of compromise with Jane Bonner after listening to him last night. I was extremely aggravated myself listening to his campaign for Jane. By doing what he was shooting for we would be giving in to the Town and letting them set a precedent against all of us. This issue is not as simple as whether you live and fish in Brookhaven or not. This can spread throughout the entire Island if we are not careful and if we do not prevail. What happened to all of the efforts and hard work that has been put in by several people aleady on this particular issue? If we were to jump to a vote last night all efforts would have been undermined. Why should we have acted in haste? Because some attorney comes in and throws a few bias words around? Are we all to fall for it? There is no way any vote should be held yet until we have our meetings with Mr. Mazzei and Mr. Lesko. Jane Bonner will not be able to do what she is currently doing to us if her supervisor is on our side. All that should have happened last night was to table the disussion to the next meeting so everyone can discuss everything with there clubs prior to making a rash and hasty desision on such an important matter. Think carefully and rationally about what you would all like to do on this issue. Don't let the blow up from last night persuade you to give up on this fight. We have put way to much time and effort into this. Why should we let some councilwoman take away our rights as citizens??? We can not tolerate her actions. From here out we need to meet with Mazzei and Lesko and publish the results of the interviews. I highly doubt that they are going to have her by their side if she is too much of a liability for them. She is not a Republican as some believe. She may vote that way at times but she is not a member of the Republican party. So she does not have the power or clout that Scott the attorney leads you to believe. Also I happen to know for a fact that the VFW Post in Shoreham has no love for her at al. In fact they can't stand her. One o the other Councilwoman named Kathleen Walsh happens to be very pro veteran. Her son is currently serving the United States Army over in Afghanistan. Maybe we should respectfully each out to her. I have a feeling she could be an ally for us. After finding out how our meetings go with each candidate for Supervisor we will then know which direction we need to go. If it means that we have to go down to the beach during the springto fish and get a summons to beat in court so be it. I am more than willing to take a summons for this cause when I believe 110% in my heart that we will beat this

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Brookhaven update

When John Russel got back from the meeting he emailed and told me about Willy's out burst.  As I stated all last year, you can't take anything away from Willy since he devotes so much time to fishing issues.  I would have preferred to get my foot in the door and work from there. The BBCA thinks he is too radical and is not helping at all! I can see his point of view with basic rights, "all or nothing".  But, this will not get fishermen access any quicker or help the stores dilemma. I think the only way to continue the fight now, is to begin another campaign on NESW web site, more petitions and emails to the town in order to keep the pressure on the current town administration. I believe we should push for total access on a state wide basis, however, getting town access is much more important for our stores survival on the North Shore of Brookhaven right now.
 
As far as the up coming election, nobody can seem to get a solid commitment from either candidate.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:59 PM
Subject: Brookhaven update


I had a customer in this morning after we spoke who gave me an upodate about last nights Coalition meeting regarding access and Brookhaven.
 
There was a gentleman present last night who is an attorney and also a fisherman speaking on behlaf of Bonner and Brookhaven. Bonner has apparently sucummbed to the emails, phone calls and pressure from fisherman and asked this guy to come and try to help the two sides work out a deal, basically mediating between the two sides (free of charge). He says that Brookhaven has agreed to allow dusk to dawn access to Shoreham, and that it will be added to the night fishing permit access points. He also mentioned that the town is interested in a non resident permit (obviously for revenue reasons).
 
Everyone present at the meeting seemed to be in agreement that this is a good starting point and they can work from there. Well Willy walked up to get a cup of coffee, and as he walked past this guy (mediator) he starts yelling saying the beaches are a god given right, this isn't good enough..etc. At this point, the guy gets up and again explains how he makes $150/hr and he's doing this for free right now on behalf of Jane, and he doesn't deserve to be spoken to like this and this is not what Willy said on the phone bla bla bla. After all this he basically says your on your own now with the town and walks out, along with a lot of people at the meeting. Doug ( who told me this) says everyone was disgusted with Willy and how he acted, and that he basically flew off the handle on this guy for no reason on someone who was helping us.
 
Maybe you can email John or anyone else you might now at the meeting to see if this really was the case.

Hey Stan,
 
Hope you are enjoying the Keys, how is the fishing ?
 
The Coalition had a meeting last night. It got very ugly. Remember a couple of months ago when I told everyone that someone who knows with Bonner wanted to broker a meeting with us ? Everyone pretty much shot down the idea ? Well , that guy is Scott Santamaria, he works with Bonner and was trying to broker a deal, partly for the fisherman, but probably in a large part for his and Bonners sake.
 
Anyway , he must have reached out to Willie to come to the meeting because he was there. Willie gave him an opportunity to speak. He gave us the same spiel he gave me last time. Basically he said he had a meeting with Bonner on Monday and wanted to broker a deal. He wanted to offer us night fishing access to start, no day fishing access. This didn't fly with me and some others, Willie included. Why should we give up our basic right to fish anytime , anywhere to get just night fishing. He basically said take this crumb, then we can ask for more when the politicians and homeowners see that we are playing ball.
 
Scott was getting upset when some of us pushed back on this proposal. Some people in the room who were totally informed seemed to want to do this. It almost came to a vote. But at some point Willie accused Scott of lying about the day fishing part of the proposal and he started screaming at him. it got ugly. Finally Scott just left. It never came to a vote.
 
Bonner is feeling the heat , this guy is trying to win favor with her so he came down to try to make this go away. Throwing us a crumb of night fishing and basically saying take it or leave it is complete BS.
 
Willie is going to try to meet with Lesko and Mazzei to find out their position on Shoreham prior to the election.
 
It was some scene last night !!!
 
John


Stan,
 
You should send him an email asking him if he is trying to bring business to Brookhaven , first thing he should do is make sure the businesses (RPFS) he has stay !!
 
John
 
Mazzei campaign focused on the economy, taxes

Councilman says he'd run town like a business if elected supervisor

By Kyle Reitan

Sun photo by Kyle Reitan Councilman Tim Mazzei opened up headquarters in Medford for his campaign for town supervisor Saturday. Mr. Mazzei has vowed to cut taxes and to look to attract new businesses to Brookhaven.
MEDFORD--About 200 supporters of town supervisor candidate Tim Mazzei gathered Saturday at the opening of Mazzei campaign headquarters in Medford to help jump-start the candidates' campaign.

"He is really a renaissance man," said Sen. Ken LaValle (R-Port Jefferson) of Mr. Mazzei, who will appear opposite Democratic candidate Mark Lesko on the March 31 special election ballot. "He will be a great supervisor."

The election was set last week after Mr. Foley resigned from the post to replace longtime Sen. Caesar Trunzo in the state's 3rd Senate District. Mr. Foley's former chief of staff Lori Baldassare is serving as acting supervisor until the election.

Mr. Mazzei and his supporters said Saturday that concerns over the economy and lowering Brookhaven's taxes will be central to the councilman's campaign. Mr. Mazzei said that as supervisor he would look to bring new businesses to Brookhaven in an effort to stimulate the local economy.

"I'm going to run the Town of Brookhaven like a business," he noted. "I'm going to encourage businesses to come to the Town of Brookhaven so that we can increase our commercial tax base to relieve the residential tax base."

Town Conservative Party chairman Richard Johannesen said a lot can be done to enhance economic development in Brookhaven. He said he hopes to see rezoning in downtown districts, including Rocky Point, that will limit the number of school children coming into the community and maximize the amount of tax rateables.

The word economy slipped off the tongues of nearly everyone in attendance at Saturday's rally. Everitt Dewitt of Lake Ronkonkoma deemed Mr. Mazzei an honest candidate who will budget government spending. "Economy is number one with everybody, and I know Tim's working very strongly in improving the area," Mr. Dewitt said.

Ted DiSalvo, president of the Holtsville Civic Association, said he believes Mr. Mazzei, who was appointed Councilman in 2002 and has since been re-elected three times, has done a good job for the 5th Council District. Mr. Mazzei's district stretches west along the South Shore from East Patchogue to the Islip town line.

Joining in the Mazzei campaign effort here on the North Shore are Councilwoman Jane Bonner, who served alongside Mr. Mazzei on the Town Board majority this year, and County Legislator Dan Losquaro (R-Shoreham). Mr. Losquadro said Mr. Mazzei's past experience as a former prosecutor and head of the homicide bureau in Suffolk County "shows the type of integrity and steadfastness that we need in the Town of Brookhaven."

In an effort to win the election, the Mazzei campaign said it plans to utilize every strategy available -- from making phone calls to going door-to-door -- to increase Mr. Mazzei's name recognition, particularly on the North Shore, and to spread his message. Mr. Mazzei said that message includes a pledge to lower taxes and to improve the quality of life in Brookhaven.

"It is a very short time, but his name is very well known and people like him," said Arlene Stevens, a volunteer from Coram.


Stan,
 
For your info attached is my response to Mr. Mazzei.
 
Bill
Mr. Mazzei,
 
Thank you for your response to my e-mail.  One of the most important things that you can do is to make the rational enforcement of all of the Town's rules regarding the Town beach a part of your platform.  Currently there is an irrational enforcement of the Town Code regarding fishing and beach access.  The Code states that you are not allowed to fish in designated swimming areas of the Town beach.  Why then are Town residents being prohibited from even bringing in and carrying fishing equipment to the beach (via access from the Town beach parking lot) to be able to legally fish at other areas of the shoreline outside of  the Town beach property?  I believe that this type of enforcement is illegal as it prevents many Town resident fishermen access to shoreline that they are legally entitled to fish.  By the way, there is enough room that there should also be a designated fishing area provided at the Town beach.
 
The Town's current policy of banning fishermen access to the beach was instituted to addresss problems of litter and vandalism that have occurred at Town beach areas and adjoining privately owned beach areas.  The Town's policy has not worked.  This summer there was excessive litter and vandalism as well.  I know this for a fact as my community in Shoreham includes beach access which I am fortunate to have and which I utilize frequently.  I also pick up a lot of litter.  The litter is not attributable solely or even mostly to fishermen.  Most fishermen remove the litter, they do not contribute to it or leave it. 
 
If you are willing to do whatever you can please state that if you are elected your plans include rescinding the current fishing access ban and letting the law abiding, tax paying, resident fishermen enjoy what their taxes are paying for.  
 
Also, please state that you intend to provide better, rational enforcement of all of the Town Code rules regarding littering, vandalism, etc.
 
The Town's current policy, of which Ms. Bonner is a proponent, is irrational, unfair and illegal.  Our Town should do much better. 
 
Sincerely,
 
Bill Scherer


I agree , that beach access needs to be restored to what is was , access for everyone, resident or non-resident. If they could up with some cockamannie plan to let local fisherman on and not everyone , it needs to be rejected. I remember Bonner saying something about residents working with local homeowners to get access, that seems totally exclusionary , that wont fly for me.


-----Original Message-----
From: Stanley Hentschel <fishingstop@msn.com>
To: egoer@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 7:34 pm
Subject: Re:

The town has always charged non residents a fee for daily use.
 
I believe the beach will be opened this spring because of the outcry, however, since we have gone this far, I believe we should consider ALL the people and their rights based on the PTD.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:27 PM

he menitoned Town of Brookhaven residents directly I wonder if that is a coincidence or maybe they could consider a solution that only allowed Brookhaven residents to use the beach ? I dont even know if they could legally do that.

Would you be open to a solution that allowed only residents to fish there ?


-----Original Message-----
From: Stanley Hentschel <fishingstop@msn.com>
To: John Russel <EGOER@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 7:02 pm


Stan,
 
I received this brief reply from coucilman Mazzei, but he really doesn't commit to anything or make his position clear.  Essentially it's a non answer other than to say that he will discuss the matter with Jane Bonner.
 
Bill

Dear Bill, I am aware of the problem with beach access and have met with Councilman Bonner to see what can be done to help you and other Town of Brookhaven
residents that are affected. I will do what ever I can to help.

>>> <barnacle1080@optonline.net> 1/12/2009 1:23 pm >>>

Send Email To: Town of Brookhaven
Your Name: Bill Scherer
Your Email: barnacle1080@optonline.net
Your Number:
Address:
Subject:
Message: I am glad to hear that you are runnning for the supervisor's seat.  I would like to know what your position is with regard to the Town's recently enacted enforcement of banning fishing access at the Town of Brookhaven Beach in Shoreham.  My belief is that this ban should be rescinded.  It is affront to all law abiding, tax paying, sportsmen who are residents of Brookhaven.  Please let me know your position on this matter.


Hi  Stan; Lesko worked in the same office at one time with the L.I.B.B.A. Treasurer. Mazzie has spoke to Chuck from L.I.B.B.A and said he is in favor of some form of access ( forgot chucks exact words.) Best to send them questions and act from results.Mazzie has helped Jane before.
Other wise all is well here. Happy New Year.
Willie

----- Original Message -----
From: Stanley Hentschel
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:50 am
Subject: Up coming election to repace Foley
To: Willie Young

> Hi Willie,
>
> I'm in the Keys enjoying a warm and fishy winter. Hope
> everything is good by you.
>
> There is going to be an election for Brookhaven town Supervisor
> sometime in march between Mazzie (rep) and Lesko (dem). Do you
> know anything about the candidates platform on fishing and
> access issues. I do not know these politicians and can't find
> much out about them.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stan


Stan,
 
I have forwarded some info to Willie on this. Will let you know when I hear back. Also, forward me any responses you get from Willie.
 
Send me some pics, would love to see them.
 
John
 
In a message dated 1/13/2009 2:49:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
Hi Bill,
 
I am not familiar with these two candidates at all!  I have corresponded with Willie Young to get some feed back, and, of course, I will support whoever is behind our issues.  I will keep you posted on that, and how we are going to get it out to the public.  If the outcome of this election is not beneficial to fishermen (including non-residents) I will either move the store to Riverhead Town or downsize.
 
The weather and fishing has been great so far. Will send some pictures when I get a chance.
 
Stan
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: Shoreham Beach

Stan,

 

I'm sure that you are aware that there is an election coming up to elect a new Supervisor for the Town of Brookhaven.  I believe that the election will be in March.  Do you know what the positions of the 2 candidates are with regard to the Shoreham Beach access issue?  The candidates are Tim Mazzei (R) and Lesko (D).

 

I hope that you are enjoying yourself and catching fish down there in sunny Florida.

 

Bill

 

Stan,
 
Not only fisherman on LI are having problems.  Check out what duck hunters have to contend with (found on my windshield at Smith Point).  Fortunately, the Suffolk County Park Police are very seriously investigating this.  Truly pathetic.
 
Happy New Year!
 
Charlie Muller



2008 CORRESPONDENCE


The town has always charged non residents a fee for daily use.
 
I believe the beach will be opened this spring because of the outcry, however, since we have gone this far, I believe we should consider ALL the people and their rights based on the PTD.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:27 PM
Subject: Re:

he menitoned Town of Brookhaven residents directly I wonder if that is a coincidence or maybe they could consider a solution that only allowed Brookhaven residents to use the beach ? I dont even know if they could legally do that.

Would you be open to a solution that allowed only residents to fish there ?


-----Original Message-----
From: Stanley Hentschel <fishingstop@msn.com>
To: John Russel <EGOER@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 7:02 pm

 
Attached Message
From: barnacle1080@optonline.net
To: stan@fishingstop.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Town Website Form
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:52:20 +0000 (GMT)
Stan,
 
He did however say that he will do whatever he can to help.
 
Bill

Willie young said he is good buddies with Bonner.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 4:50 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Town Website Form

Stan,
 
I received this brief reply from coucilman Mazzei, but he really doesn't commit to anything or make his position clear.  Essentially it's a non answer other than to say that he will discuss the matter with Jane Bonner.
 
Bill

 

Stan,
 
I received this brief reply from coucilman Mazzei, but he really doesn't commit to anything or make his position clear.  Essentially it's a non answer other than to say that he will discuss the matter with Jane Bonner.
 
Bill

 

Dear Bill, I am aware of the problem with beach access and have met with Councilman Bonner to see what can be done to help you and other Town of Brookhaven
residents that are affected. I will do what ever I can to help.

>>> <barnacle1080@optonline.net> 1/12/2009 1:23 pm >>>

Send Email To: Town of Brookhaven
Your Name: Bill Scherer
Your Email: barnacle1080@optonline.net
Your Number:
Address:
Subject:
Message: I am glad to hear that you are runnning for the supervisor's seat.  I would like to know what your position is with regard to the Town's recently enacted enforcement of banning fishing access at the Town of Brookhaven Beach in Shoreham.  My belief is that this ban should be rescinded.  It is affront to all law abiding, tax paying, sportsmen who are residents of Brookhaven.  Please let me know your position on this matter.

Stan,

See below from Willie.

John


-----Original Message-----
From: msawill@optonline.net
To: EGOER@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 7:29 am
Subject: Re: Brookhaven special election

Hi; It is broader then shoreham.  We are going to try and have a meeting with both. They can ask what they want, but I will put out what they tell us.
Willie
----- Original Message -----
From: EGOER@aol.com
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Brookhaven special election
To: msawill@optonline.net
Cc: weakfishin@yahoo.com

> Willie,
>
> I am getting some questions from some people on whether
> individuals should
> email and Mazzei and Lesko to ask their stance on Shoreham. Do
> you think
> invdividuals should also do this or let the Coalition do this
> and pass the
> information down to people after Lesko and Mazzei reply ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/2009 4:54:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>
> msawill@optonline.net writes:
>
> Hi John; We must question both and go from there.
> Willie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EGOER@aol.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:41 pm
> Subject: Brookhaven special election
> To: msawill@optonline.net
> Cc: weakfishin@yahoo.com
>
> >
> > Willie and Tom,
> >
> > Special election for Brookhaven town supervisor is set ( see
> > article below)
> > , Tim Mazzei (Republican) against Mark Lesko ( Democrat). Do
> > you guys know
> > either one?
> >
> > Would one be better for us then other ? if so , do we want to
> > spread the
> > word at appropriate time amongst fishing community to support
> > one of these guys
> > ?
> >
> > John

Hi  Stan; Lesko worked in the same office at one time with the L.I.B.B.A. Treasurer. Mazzie has spoke to Chuck from L.I.B.B.A and said he is in favor of some form of access ( forgot chucks exact words.) Best to send them questions and act from results.Mazzie has helped Jane before.
Other wise all is well here. Happy New Year.
Willie

----- Original Message -----
From: Stanley Hentschel
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:50 am
Subject: Up coming election to repace Foley
To: Willie Young

> Hi Willie,
>
> I'm in the Keys enjoying a warm and fishy winter. Hope
> everything is good by you.
>
> There is going to be an election for Brookhaven town Supervisor
> sometime in march between Mazzie (rep) and Lesko (dem). Do you
> know anything about the candidates platform on fishing and
> access issues. I do not know these politicians and can't find
> much out about them.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stan

Stan,

Thanks for getting back to me.  As far as getting it out to the public, there is some time between now and the elections so the drum beating should start ASAP in order to reach the most people.

Bill

From: Stanley Hentschel [mailto:fishingstop@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:50 PM
To: Bill Scherer; Bob Santacroce; Charles R. Muller; Joe Kessel; John Lavalle; John Russel; John Skinner
Subject: Re: Shoreham Beach

Hi Bill,

I am not familiar with these two candidates at all!  I have corresponded with Willie Young to get some feed back, and, of course, I will support whoever is behind our issues.  I will keep you posted on that, and how we are going to get it out to the public.  If the outcome of this election is not beneficial to fishermen (including non-residents) I will either move the store to Riverhead Town or downsize.

The weather and fishing has been great so far. Will send some pictures when I get a chance.

Stan


Stan,
 
I have forwarded some info to Willie on this. Will let you know when I hear back. Also, forward me any responses you get from Willie.
 
Send me some pics, would love to see them.
 
John
 
In a message dated 1/13/2009 2:49:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fishingstop@msn.com writes:
Hi Bill,
 
I am not familiar with these two candidates at all!  I have corresponded with Willie Young to get some feed back, and, of course, I will support whoever is behind our issues.  I will keep you posted on that, and how we are going to get it out to the public.  If the outcome of this election is not beneficial to fishermen (including non-residents) I will either move the store to Riverhead Town or downsize.
 
The weather and fishing has been great so far. Will send some pictures when I get a chance.
 
Stan
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: Shoreham Beach

Stan,

I'm sure that you are aware that there is an election coming up to elect a new Supervisor for the Town of Brookhaven.  I believe that the election will be in March.  Do you know what the positions of the 2 candidates are with regard to the Shoreham Beach access issue?  The candidates are Tim Mazzei (R) and Lesko (D).

I hope that you are enjoying yourself and catching fish down there in sunny Florida.

Bill



7:30 at the Sportsfishing Center on Ocean Parkway.  Here are directions if you have not been there before :
 
 
Will be good to have you there to voice your opinions on what should be done next.
 
John


I should have no problem with that date.  Where and when?


Stan,
 
The next coalition meeting is on the 18th, Shoreham of course will be a hot topic. Any chance you can come to this meeting ?
 
John
 


Hi John,
 
I agree, it's senseless to talk with Bonner. She has already shown her colors and is trying to get compromises.  And now that Foley has been elected Senator, he could care less.
 
Anthony Weiss' idea about getting the fishermen together is good, however, I think we should discuss our next step (lawyers) rather than have to compromise our basic rights.  It's gone this far, why not try to open up access to the entire Island. His contact Scott Santamarha, a lawyer and surf caster, can help persuade Bonner to open the Town Beach at Shoreham, It can't hurt, but with all the public out cry from Bonner's local constituents concerning this issue, I believe it will be opened anyway.   I think she realizes by now what she did was wrong and is trying to make it right. But compromising our rights??? I don't think so.  Also, Scott can give us valuable info on how we can go about starting a suite. 
 
From what I can get from some of the town contacts I have, town officials just want this over with. It has become an "infected pimple on their asses". Has there been any response from the Town regarding the petitions? I have not heard anything!?
 
As stated to Mr. Weiss in a response to his email, I welcome his support and concern, and will make the meeting.  If you think the meeting won't be productive let me know.

 I leave for Florida soon, but will have a lap top with me.
 
Stan


Stan,
 
Regarding Anthonys email about a meeting, it looks like the prevailing wisdom is to take a pass on meeting with her. I spoke to Willie last night. He thinks meeting with her would be a sign of weakness and doesn't want to do it. As he said , "Let her sit in her stew".
 
if she is feeling pressure to meet with us, not meeting with her will only cause her more pressure and strengthen our hand. If she was going to meet with us to yank our chain some more or throw us a bone, then it wouldn't have been worth meeting with her.
 
She knows the issues, she knows what she wants, she needs to make it happen. Sounds like this is all about the people who come down there, litter and trespass. That is an enforcement issue , not the fisherman's problem. Send enforcement down there, write some tickets, arrest some people. Those people wont come back and the word will get out to obey the law at Shoreham beach, problem solved.
 
There are many moves in this game, this is only one of many.
 
John


Hi Anthony I have meet with many Legislators including the governor of the state of N.Y.. I did not need anyone to meet with them .She is part of the problem and I will not talk to here from weakness or some one else setting the agenda. 
I did not curse or yell at her . To suggest that I did does not sit well with me. We are working on other steps and the letters will increase . My course and others has been set.
Willie ----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Weiss
Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 2:52 pm
Subject: Shoreham Beach
To: John
Cc: jskinner@optonline.net, weakfishin@yahoo.com, fishingstop@msn.com, msawill@optonline.net


> Gentlemen,
>
> My name is Anthony Weiss, you may know me as Aweiss44 on the
> various online fishing sites. I am the vice president of the
> Kayak Fishing Association of NY, a group of mainly Long Island
> Kayakers. When Brookhaven first shut down Shoreham beach to
> anglers, we joined in along with Willy and the rest of the
> fishing community making phone calls, writing letters, appearing
> in local media, etc, to try and change the fishing ban.
>
> Throughout that time, a source was giving me snippets of
> information about Brookhaven and the reasoning behind their
> decisions. ON December 1 he met with Jane Bonner, and
> immediately after the meeting
emailed me out of the blue, saying
> we need to talk. I called him and here's the rundown:
> His name is xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. He is a public affairs guy, and
> lawyer, working for corporations and political parties
. He has
> personally worked with Jane several times(business, not
> political) and has a pretty good rapport with her. He is also a
> surfcaster from long island
. In conversation with her one day
> he asked what was going on with Shoreham beach, and they
> apparently had a lengthy conversation about it.
He says that
> Jane is not opposed to opening the beach back up to fishing, BUT
> there are certain issues that need to be addressed properly to
> allow fishing to return. Apparently the local residents and the
> town aren't opposed to resuming fishing-provided that the issues
> are addressed appropriately.
>
> Scott also said that Jane wants EVERYONE to be willing to
> compromise and act professionally, herself included. There can
> be no yelling, no cursing, threatening or anything of the kind.
> There can also be no bullheadedness, as we have to be willing to
> compromise. It was briefly mentioned that 24/7/365 access may
> not be allowed. That is a bridge we have to cross when we get
> there, but it's things like that which we need to be able to
> compromise on, instead of walking away from the table.
>
> Apparently due to my posting of updates and letters about
> shoreham beach on the internet, Scott reached out to me thinking
> I was a major player in the fishing scene. Let's get one thing
> straight- I'm not. And Willy, I don't want it to seem like I'm
> trying to step on your toes or anyone else's. However, he asked
> me to round up a core group of "movers and shakers" in the
> fishing community that would work with him(acting as a mediary)
> and Jane to resolve this solution. He said the first step would
> be meeting with the fishermen to get their side of the story,
> since he has only heard Janes side so far. He seems fair, and
> that he wants to get access restored. He is also meeting with
> another attorney to get some clarification on the Public Trust
> Doctrine, that we may be able to use to our advantage.
>
> I don't personally know anyone of you except for one fellow in
> my club. The names on this email are John Russell(KFA), John
> Skinner, Tom Farrell, Stan Henschel from Rocky Point Fishing
> Stop, and Willy Young. I think everyone of you has some major
> assets that we can use to effectively restore access to shoreham
> beach, but we have to work together and professionally.
>
> If you guys are interested, please respond back to me and let me
> know. If you are available, Wednesday the 10th my club is
> having a holiday party at the sportfishing center in
> Babylon(where MSA and LIBBA have meetings). I'll be there from
> 7-930 if you guys want to talk a bit about everything.
> Otherwise I don't think i'd be able to get west for a few
> weeks(I live in East Hampton), but John Russell can take my
> place for anything that would need to be done.
>
> I hope we can all get this done.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Anthony Weiss
> KFA-NY



Hi John,
 
I wish I could be more optimistic, however, I firmly believe the town has no plans to help either the fishermen or beach associations with the enforcement issue, or open Shoreham to fishing.  We went to the meeting with all good intentions of the town helping both parties involved with workable solutions to the enforcement and access issues. The only good I saw were the solutions that the property association came up with in order to allow local fishermen to use the beaches. We are both on the same plane with these issues.  But, that does not help the other 450,000 tax payers get access to the public domain.  I would like to state that I met Dave Ramondo and Chris Catan, both of Shoreham, who were miss represented by various news articles. They are both supportive of the local anglers, but have, like us, issues with the "element" on the beaches that leave garbage and vandalize property. I saw pictures of garbage on the beaches that reminded me of a land fill and lean twos that were built out of trees that were cut down from residents property.  They are both articulate and friendly men that have solid, workable solutions to our access problems.  I look forward to working with them. It's a shame that the town does not have the initiative that the beach associations have.
 
John Skinner was nice enough to make time from his schedule to attend the meeting with me.  He lives in Riverhead which has a workable solution to parking and access issues. As John was bringing up viable input to some of the problems, Jane Bonner chimes in and insults him. You can only guess how embarrassing that was to me.  I have lost all respect for her and will do all I can next election year to have her removed.  I feel she showed ignorance and insensitivity to the fishermen.  She kept stating that the beach was designated by the town as a non fishing beach and always was.  Then start proceedings to make it a fishing beach and access point that does not conflict with swimmers.  It seems simple enough to me. The BBCA, fishermen and associations were addressing the issues looking for solutions, but the Town couldn't or did not want to come through. She was very angry about some of the posts on the NESW blog about her, and especially the posting of her address, which I agree was wrong.  She also mentioned comments made by "egore" and "tiderunner" that got under her skin. Thank god someone from the town said that her comments had nothing to do about the Shoreham issues and we resumed the meeting in an orderly fashion.

Trying another angle, I mentioned that my and other businesses in the community lost a lot of money this summer by keeping non resident fishermen from Manhattan, Queens, Nassau and Suffolk from utilizing the beaches.  These are the people, "tourist", who ran our economy before the building boom started 25 years ago. What now! I guess the town doesn't see it coming. Also, the problem with "the element" escalated because they just stopped fishing Shoreham and moved into all the private areas.  Seems pretty stupid, doesn't it.
 
All in all I came away from the meeting disappointed, realizing that there has to be changes made for the wants of the majority of Brookhaven's and the State's constituents.  This is a terrible administration.  If the residents and the fishermen are in agreement why can't the town help with solutions?  I always believed in trying to solve problems by intelligent rather than radical means. However, as Willie Young said "let Stan be the nice guy, but it probably won't work" hit home. I realize now that it is like talking to a brick wall. They just don't get it!
 
Reviewing the blog on the NESW web site, I realize there has been a lot of solid input from passionate people as ourselves, some a little radical or could have been stated in a different way, however, in between the lines, it makes The Town of Brookhaven look like clowns.
 
"PUBLIC TRUST DOCTRINE" here I come!
 
Stan

John Skinner, well known fisherman , author and editor for Noreast Magazine provides recap of the meeting :

<<On Friday, October 3rd, I attended a meeting held at Brookhaven Town Hall to address the fishing ban on the Brookhaven Town beaches in the vicinity of the Shoreham Town Beach.
I believe Friday’s meeting was held at the request of the Brookhaven Business Community Alliance (BBCA) leader Joe Kessel, and that request was made after the BBCA’s meeting held in Rocky Point on September 16 in which all in attendance who spoke showed a desire to keep Shoreham Beach open and to allow fishing access. I attended the September 16 meeting. Although I live in Riverhead Town, just past the eastern border of Brookhaven Town, I attended because I wanted to stay informed on the issue so that I could accurately report on it in my surf column. When it became clear that everyone speaking was on the same page and that enforcement of existing laws, especially regarding littering, was a major issue, I spoke to the audience about how Riverhead Town handles the situation. Stan Hentschel, the longtime owner of Rocky Point Fishing Stop, was at the meeting, and felt that the information I had to offer regarding Riverhead Town’s management of their beaches was useful and might be of interest to Brookhaven Town officials. When the October 3rd meeting at Town Hall was organized, Stan invited me to be one of two representatives from the fishing community. I’ve known Stan for 35 years, and would never hesitate to help him, but I expressed to him my concern that I’m not a Brookhaven resident. He indicated that he still wanted me there because he wanted me to share my Riverhead Town beach access management information with the Brookhaven Town officials. I did not ask to be part of the October 3rd meeting, but I agreed to Stan’s request. I have absolutely no interest in fishing any Brookhaven beaches.
In attendance at the meeting, to the best of my recall, were Joe Kessel and Stan representing the Business Alliance. David Raimondo representing the Shoreridge Hills residents, a gentleman representing another group of local residents, an attorney from the Town’s Law Dept, Mr. Morris – the head of the Park’s Dept., a representative from Public Safety (#2 man, I think), Jane Bonner – the Councilwoman for that area, and one of her aides. I was the representative of the fishing interests. Another fisherman was supposed to be there but couldn’t make it due to a family illness. Although Stan was there as a Business Alliance representative, I think we can picture him with two hats and consider him as a second fishing representative.
The meeting started with Stan detailing the tens of thousands of dollars the loss of beach access has cost his business. I then offered the following information regarding how Riverhead deals with beach access.
Since the elimination of fishing access in eastern Brookhaven Town, many people seeking to fish have moved onto the Riverhead beaches, and this includes the large immigrant population that was cited in both meetings as being responsible for the majority of the litter that resulted in the loss of beach access. They come by the vanload – entire families from numerous townships. How does Riverhead respond? They let them and everyone else fish. If you’re a resident, $15 for a beach lot permit and a free night fishing permit will get you 24/7/365 access to Riverhead’s roughly 15 miles of beaches from 8 access points. If you’re a non-resident, there are two options. You can buy a $200 parking permit that will cover you for the year. I see many of those in the beach lots. You can also buy a $35 daily permit. Although that sounds expensive to me, I see a lot of those too. To facilitate access, Riverhead Town makes beach-parking permits available at places such as tackle shops and delis. So the policy helps local businesses by generating some foot traffic in the stores. Contrast this with Brookhaven’s policy that costs Stan tens of thousands of dollars. So how does Riverhead deal with all of those people that now have legal access to the beach? – simple – they enforce the laws by having a police officer on an ATV ride the beach from border to border. When people who may be predisposed to doing something illegal, like littering, see a uniform and a badge, their behavior changes. If you park in a beach lot without a permit, expect a $100 ticket on your windshield. How do they allow 24-hour beach parking without the lots becoming partying hangouts – simple again – if you don’t have a night fishing permit and you’re doing something other than fishing – you get a $100 ticket too. Between all of those $100 tickets, $200 seasonal non-resident passes, $35 non-resident day passes, and $15 resident passes, Riverhead Town collects a substantial amount of money that can then support the cop on the ATV. Nobody is trying to split an atom here. This is a common sense approach to beach access management, and it works even with the addition of displaced people from Brookhaven. My question to the Brookhaven officials was “Tell me why you can’t do something like this?”
Sadly, I saw little interest on behalf of the Brookhaven Town officials in pursuing such an approach. There were many excuses. Here are a few. “Brookhaven Public Safety only has jurisdiction in the parks themselves, and not outside the park boundaries”, “we don’t have the money”, “we don’t have the staff”, “the beaches outside the park are the responsibility of County police”, “how will we get the ATVs on the beach?”, “we can’t ride the ATVs on people’s private beaches”, “our beaches are geologically different than Riverhead’s” (by this the person was referring to bluffs and jetties, just like we have in Riverhead).
I urged taking a higher-level view of the issue and consider the entire 15-mile stretch of Brookhaven North Shore frontage instead of focusing on just Shoreham. But heard back “all of those other places are private”.
At the September 16 meeting, a lady brought up the possibility of the Town using some land it owns in Rocky Point (old Pickwick Property?) to provide fishing access. Everyone at that meting thought that was an excellent suggestion. When Stan brought that up at Friday’s meeting, Jane Bonner acknowledged the Town land there, but said, “there’s no beach access there”. To which Stan replied, “Then make some”. To which Bonner responded “But the Tides are right next to there!” (The Tides is another beachfront residential community).
That exchange was a good representation of Bonner’s attitude that the beaches are private property, and that even allowing fishing access across Town-owned land in the vicinity of residential beach communities is unacceptable. The word “private” was spoken by her many times in the meeting. She said fishermen should be asking private property owners for fishing access, as she did in this quote from an article in the September 19th North Shore Sun, “Ms. Bonner suggested the fishermen reach out to private property owners and request permission to fish on their beaches…Ms. Bonner said the fishermen would be trespassing should they walk across town property.”
At one point during the meeting, Jane Bonner said (referring to me) that my presence at the meeting made her uncomfortable and that she found me to be “confrontational”. Yes, I confronted them with one township’s solution, but was told that Brookhaven’s situation is “unique”. When Bonner complained that someone on an online forum called her a criminal, I quickly pointed to her quote in the Sun where she said fishermen on Town property were trespassing. When she shot down Stan’s request for access through the Pickwick property because it was next to the Tides, I blurted out “That’s irrelevant!”
It is irrelevant. I told them that when I stand on a beach below the high water mark and look along the shoreline, all I see is beach. I don’t give a damn who owns the property on the top of the bluff. I fish, kayak, scuba dive, and skin dive all along the beaches from Wading River to Orient Point without ever having to think about whose beach I’m on, because I know whose beach I’m on, OUR BEACH!
She may call me confrontational, but as long as I have a pulse, I’m not going to sit politely and quietly and be told that I have to ask permission of shorefront property owners to do what I love and have grown up doing.
A few other points. They didn’t want to talk about the Public Trust Doctrine, and were generally dismissive of it. Through all of this, no one has yet to tell me precisely which Brookhaven Town code will be violated should you park legally at the Shoreham Town Beach, walk below the high water mark beyond the park boundary, and then go fishing. I think there is going to be a closed meeting among Brookhaven officials regarding beach access and then another similar to what we just had, but I’m not positive on that.
After meeting the beachfront community representatives, it’s clear to me that they are not our problem. I’ve read numerous letters from Mr. Raimondo to the local papers that made him sound like an enemy to the fishermen. I don’t feel this way at all after meeting him. The most positive aspect of this meeting came after the meeting broke up and Stan, Raimondo, myself, and the other property association representative (sorry, can’t remember the name) spoke amongst ourselves. These people don’t seem to care if there are local surfcasters on the beaches. Their issue is with the very large number of immigrants trashing their beaches. They had many pictures, and they told us they begged the Town for help enforcing the litter laws. Please refrain from bashing any of the residents on the discussion boards. What you write on these boards is read by Bonner. Bonner mentioned Tom Farrel’s name several times. Both resident representatives knew I had written a book about surf fishing, so I guess they were on the boards too.
I’ve done what Stan asked me to do – I presented Brookhaven Town officials with a solution that works in neighboring Riverhead Town. My position is that the taxpayers of Brookhaven Town are entitled to 24/7/365 access to their beaches. Even if the Town restricted that access to only its residents and didn’t offer non-resident access, I would feel that these efforts have been successful. Unfortunately, I don’t see that kind of access as a possibility in the current Brookhaven Town political climate. It’s time for a Brookhaven resident to take my place at any further meetings. Something on a small scale may be able to be worked out that will benefit a few local casters. I thank God I don’t live in Brookhaven Town.



Thanks to all that attended Tuesdays meeting.  For the first time in 34 years I think it went very well. Was well organized and got right down to business resolving a lot of issues between the fishermen and beach associations.  We all seem to stand on the same ground now concerning Shoreham Beach and related access issues.
 
As it stands now we have a closed meeting Friday 10/3.  There will be the Parks and Recreation Department, Public Safety, Jane Bonner, Town Attorney, etc. present.  I have John Skinner coming to represent the fishermen.  He lives in riverhead now, but is very familiar with the issues, and lives in a town that has a workable access policy.  Maybe Brookhaven can emulate that. Two representatives form the Beach Associations will be there along with Joe Kessel and myself representing the Brookhaven Businessmen and Community Alliance.

Will keep everybody posed

Stan



Since Labor Day , the town has completely closed Shoreham Beach for the season. There is no fishing, no boating, no swimming, the beach is CLOSED. It has never been this way in past years. It seems like the local politicians and residents have taken this one step further in trying to turn public beaches private. Their first attempt at this was thinly veiled by banning fishing by using real or imagined issues. Now it is 100% clear what they are trying to do by closing this beach to everyone.

We can not let this stand.

There is a meeting on September 16th at the VFW Hall in Rocky Point on King Road (2nd right off Broadway from 25A going north) at 7PM. This meeting will be attended by local politician Jane Bonner, various civic associations from the beach area, the Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance and anyone else who wants to attend from the public.

If you care about your rights as a fisherman and taxpayer, whether you fish here or not , please attend this meeting and make yourself heard. We especially need residents from the town to attend. This can be an emotional issue for some, so if you attend the meeting please conduct yourself in a professional, respectful manner. Hopefully the town is willing to work this issue out , if not we will have to move forward with other political and legal options.

If anyone has any questions please PM me.



John

Did you see these in todays paper ? Great letter by John and Chris. Do you know Chris ? Letter by the resident makes my blood boil.



Let us fish

Wading River

To the Editor:

The article "Gone fishin' somewhere else" that appeared in the July 25 issue of The North Shore Sun made numerous references to the beaches adjoining the Shoreham Town Beach as "private beaches." It should be clarified that beachfront property owners own only the land above the Mean High Water Mark (MHWM). This line is calculated by an average of all high tides, including the unusually high tides that occur near the full and new moons, and the often very high storm-driven tides. Since these extreme highs are averaged in, the MHWM is well above the weed line that is deposited by typical high tides. The beach below the MHWM belongs to the state, and the public's right to access it is protected under the Public Trust Doctrine.

The Public Trust Doctrine is a legal principle derived from English Common Law. The essence of the doctrine is that the waters of the state are a public resource owned by and available to all citizens equally for the purposes of navigation, conducting commerce, fishing, recreation, and similar uses. This trust is not invalidated by private ownership of the underlying land.

Note the reference to "fishing." Although it is certainly reasonable to prohibit fishing in a bathing area in a park during the bathing season, fishing cannot be prohibited outside of the park boundaries below the MHWM.

In a letter to the Kayak Fishing Association of New York dated June 27, Brookhaven Town Supervisor Brian Foley made this clear when he wrote "As to fishing at the Town's Shoreham Beach, I have been informed by our parks department that the area to either side of the bathing area is allowed for fishing purposes." This statement from the town's highest official, helps make it clear that if someone parks legally in the Shoreham Town Beach parking lot, and then walks beyond the park boundary while staying below the MHWM, no laws will be broken.

The article identifies litter as a major problem at Shoreham Beach, and implies that litter was a contributing factor to enforcement of the fishing ban. The litter problem hasn't been limited to Shoreham, and it's a disgrace. But this is an illegal activity that should be combated with enforcement of our laws and perhaps educating the growing segment of our society that seems to think it's OK to use our beaches as a garbage dump. Other townships are dealing with the litter problem without restricting beach access. Law-abiding, taxpaying citizens of the Town of Brookhaven deserve the same consideration.

John Skinner


No fishing a good thing

Shoreham

To the Editor:

The subtitle of the article "Gone fishin' somewhere else" in the July 25 issue of The North Shore Sun was "fishermen want to return to Shoreham," but it sounds to me as though they should not have been there in the first place. Apparently, fishing has always been prohibited by Town of Brookhaven code at all beaches and parks. This code, I'm sure, was written to protect the safety and welfare of the residents of Brookhaven. I have to say that I have seen firsthand what happens when this code is not enforced.

Several years ago, and as recently as last year, Shoreham Beach was a veritable dumping ground for anything and everything that the masses of fishermen brought down with them. My children, and those of my neighbors, have played on the beach among boxes of empty bait containers, rusted lures and hooks and dead fish that were caught small and used for bait.

In 2006 and 2007 I witnessed garbage left by fishermen and their families, empty Styrofoam containers and plastic utensils. There were plastic bags tied to trees in the bluffs to mark where rotten little dinghies were hidden in the tall grass. Families were lying in sleeping bags up in the bluffs.

A fisher walked by several of our families and threw the wrapper from her sandwich not 15 feet from where we were. When we asked her, nicely, if she would pick that up, she said something I didn't understand, but her face expressed just how angry she was at us for having the nerve to care about our beach. I could go on, but let me express how different it is now that this code is being enforced.

I now see families down at Shoreham Beach enjoying this beautiful resource that we town resident have. The beach is clean and, for the most part, garbage gets put in trash cans. My neighbors and I have little fear of our children stepping on a rusted hook or a dead fish. Quite frankly, Shoreham Beach is back and is once again a great place to bring your kids and families. Thanks goes to the concerned residents of this area and the town officials, Jane Bonner and Jim LaCarrubba to name a few, who cared enough about "we the people" to enforce a long-standing code and make this resource special for all of us once again.

Rob Keller

I'm still fishing

Shoreham

To the Editor:

I am a surf fisherman and I read with great interest your article regarding the ban on surf fishing on Shoreham Beach. I am a lifelong resident of the Shoreham-Wading River area. I have fished these beaches since childhood. My father fished these same beaches and so did my grandfather (long before the power plant). When I was a member of Boy Scout Troop 161 in Shoreham, I was involved with a number of conservation projects to prevent erosion along the bluffs and preserve natural habitat in the Shoreridge Hills area and St. Joseph's Villa (again before LILCO). As a teen, I worked as a lifeguard and when I was a member of the Wading River Fire Department I worked with other men in the community to preserve and protect the lives and property of those who live near or on the beach.

I have done more to preserve the beach than many of the property owners in the area. Most of the surf fishermen I know are respectful of the beach, as it is part of the public trust for the benefit of all people. Like myself, they carry out what they carry in and even pick up litter to protect the wildlife and people that come to use this resource. The only thing we leave behind are our tracks below the mean high water mark and even those are washed away at the next high tide.

Government officials have restricted the size and the amount of the fish I may catch. Now these political hawks are trying to tell me I cannot fish there anymore. I'll be darned if I let that happen. I will continue to fish these beaches when I want and where I want. No one is going to stop me from my right to public access.

I taught my children to fish on these beaches. I taught them to respect the outdoors the same way my grandfather taught me. I am now a grandfather myself and when my 3-month-old granddaughter is big enough to hold a fishing rod, I'll teach her, too.

In the meantime, you can find me on the beach below the mean high water mark at the next full moon. I'll be fishing for stripers, just like my grandfather taught me.

Chris Becker


received this from Morris today :
 
Dear Mr. Russell,

This letter is written in response to your inquiry regarding fishing at Shoreham Beach, an issue that has received a great deal of attention during the summer months.

Shoreham Beach is a Town bathing beach and fishing has never been permitted at this facility. In fact, Section 10-11 of the Brookhaven Town Code specifically forbids fishing at Town beaches for obvious safety reasons.

While the shoreline of the beach extends for a significant distance both to the east and west of Shoreham Beach, the land on either side of the Town's beach is private property and the owners have asked the Town to inform our residents that trespassing is not allowed on their beach.

I have taken the liberty of enclosing a list of Town of Brookhaven designated fishing areas on both the North and South Shores, where fisherman can safely cast their lines from the shore or Town fishing piers.

Commissioner Morris,
 
I received your letter today in response to my questions and comments on the ban of fishing at Shoreham Beach. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, I appreciate it. I have some follow-up questions for you, if you could please address these I would appreciate it.
 
You state that fishing has never been permitted at this beach. People have been fishing here for years, why now is Brookhaven enforcing this town code ?
 
Why do you say there are obvious safety concerns ? The beach here is extensive and the allowable bathing area is roped in and patrolled by lifeguards. How are fisherman who are fishing outside of the designated bathing areas causing a safety issue ? Have there been any documented incidents in the past of fisherman injuring bathers ?
 
Supervisor Foley has sent letters to people indicating fishing is allowed outside of the designated bathing area, what you are saying contradicts this. Can you please explain this ?
 
Numerous sources have said the real reason the beach has been closed to fishing is littering issues, is this the case ? How do you know fisherman have done this ? If so, shouldn't law enforcement ticket these individuals ? Banning fishing completely because of the actions of a few individuals is not the answer. Does the Town of Brookhaven ban driving because some people are speeding or driving drunk ?
 
Are you and the Town of Brookhaven familiar with the Public Trust Doctrine ? People are allowed to fish and be on the beach up to the mean high tide mark, so the beach the residents think is "theirs" is not "theirs". Access must be provided to these beaches. The town has stated that anyone who even comes onto the beach with a fishing rod will have Public Safety called on them. First of all possessing a fishing rod is not illegal and second , the Public Trust Doctrine allows for access to the beach. The Town of Brookhaven is violating the Public Trust Doctrine.
 
Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water and banning fishing, I suggest the Town attack the real problem here. Tax paying residents are being deprived of the resources they pay for and this ban is having a negative impact on the local economy. If littering is an issue , utilize the enforcement and cleaning services that tax payers are paying for. I would also suggest working with fishing organizations to do beach clean-ups if needed. Many organizations sponsor beach clean-up outings and fisherman work to clean up the beaches. Real fisherman are not the problem here, in fact most real fisherman do not leave litter and are excellent stewards of the beach and sea.
 
Regards,
 
John Russell

Mr. Russell,

Thank you for your follow up e-mail. I have taken the liberty of forwarding your e-mail to the Law Department and our Town Attorney for their review. Most of the questions are in legal in nature and I would like to have them follow up with you directly. Once again, thank you for your concern and opinions.

Councilwoman Jane Bonner

>>> <EGOER@aol.com> 7/15/2008 10:18 AM >>>
Dear Councilwoman Bonner,
 
Thank you for taking the time out to reply to my email. You are to be 
commended for your contributions to society and making Brookhaven a better place  to
live for your constituents.
 
But your actions on behalf of the few wealthy beachfront property owners 
only serve a small few and not the public at large. Banning fishing at Shoreham 
beach is misguided and illegal. This action is having a negative impact on all
 tax paying residents of Brookhaven from a quality of life standpoint and
having  a negative impact on the local economy.
 
I am aware of the letter from Supervisor Foley which states fishing is  legal
outside the designated bathing area. Why are there "No Fishing " signs 
posted in multiple places at the beach ? Why are lifeguards telling people there 
is no fishing ? Why have lifeguards been instructed to call the police if 
someone on the beach possesses a fishing rod ? Is it illegal in the United  States
of America to possess a fishing rod ? Does Shoreham have it's own laws  that
are contrary to the law of the land.
 
Those beaches belong to everyone, not just the wealthy property owners who 
would like keep "undesirables" off of "their" beaches. There are miles and
miles  of beaches there that can be shared by everyone. Fisherman have no desire
to  fish near the designated swimming area. It is not safe and no fisherman
would do  this, so banning fishing at a swimming beach just appears to be
smokescreen to  keep as many people off the beach and out of the area as possible.
Are there any  documented cases of swimmers being injured by fisherman ? I
highly doubt  this.
 
I have also heard that Shoreham has a homeless problem, so they banned 
fishing. I find it impossible to believe that a rich beachfront community has a 
homeless problem.  How does banning fishing help solve this problem ? If 
banning fishing solves a homeless problem, then I suggest you get on the phone  with
the mayors of major cities in the United States and let them know you have  a
solution to their problem. Mayor Bloomberg , we have a solution to the 
homeless problem, just ban fishing in NYC !!
 
Many fisherman are very angered by this short-sighted , self serving , 
illegal ban on fishing. There are many organized groups who represent fisherman 
and actions like yours only serve to increase people's resolve. Word of these 
illegal action has spread very quickly amongst the fishing community and people
 are taking action. Fisherman and their friends vote and are surely not 
going to look positively on anyone associated with this ban.
 
I urge you to do the right thing and restore fishing at Shoreham Beach. 
Hopefully this can be done without a legal challenge, but I assure you this  issue
will not die until the ban is removed. I personally am spreading the word  on
this to everyone I know in Brookhaven.  As word spreads on this issue 
amongst the people of Brookhaven, Long Island and  beyond,  those associated with
banning fishing on this beach are not  going to be looked upon kindly. There is
no legitimate , moral or legal  basis for this ban and anyone aside from the
wealthy few who live near the  beach will surely see this.
 
Sincerely Yours,
 
John Russell

Hi John,
 
Thanks for the support!  I can use all I can get.
 
I just cannot believe the audacity of Brookhaven's town board! Who gives them the right to usurp our rights to beaches we pay such high taxes on???
 
Stan

To voice your opinion email at this link:

 http://www.brookhaven.org/OfficeoftheSupervisor/BrianXFoley/tabid/197/Default.aspx

7/9/08-From Stripersandanglers.com

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=990


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 10:44 AM
Subject: Note from John Russell - Shoreham

Hey Stan,
 
I hear you are on top of the Shoreham fishing ban. I am on the board of directors of the Kayak Fishing Association of New York and we are aware of this situation and are in the process of sending letters to Foley. We have members who live in Brookhaven and they will be sending letters also.
 
Sucks that once again they are trying to steal our access. Our club is big on trying to prevent things like this so let me know about any developments or if you need our help.
 
Also the New York Coaliton of Recreational Fishing which was started by Willie Young of Montauk Surfcasters Association and is made up of 9 or 10 fishing organizations is aware of this issue and planning to write letters and get a meeting with Foley to discuss  this issue.
 
John

 

CCA Supports Legislation for Hatteras Island Access


The Coastal Conservation Association North Carolina believes all anglers should have reasonable access to public lands and waters to pursue the sport of fishing by both boaters and shore based anglers whether walking or in off road vehicles (ORVs). The Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreation Area (CHNSRA) was established over 50 years ago with the expressed intent of the Congress and the National Park Service to allow the public access to beach recreational opportunities. These include walking and driving on the beaches of the CHNSRA. This park was uniquely and explicitly set aside as a recreation area.
 
Recently, a few well financed, private organizations, namely the Audubon Society, the Defenders of Wildlife and the Southern Environmental Law Center have taken away the rights and privileges of the users of the CHNSRA under the guise of protecting birds and turtles. They have specifically targeted fishermen, vacationing families and pedestrian beach goers who use four wheel drive vehicles to deny their access to the best beaches and surf fishing locations on the East coast. They have not done this through an open, public participatory process but through a lawsuit and closed door legal maneuvering that is unfounded in fact. Now, nearly all access to the public beach areas is lost!
 
To remedy this situation, Senator Elizabeth Dole and Senator Richard Burr have introduced a bill in the U. S. Senate that would reinstate the interim ORV management plan that was previously put in place by the National Park Service (NPS). Representative Walter Jones has introduced a similar bill in the U. S. House of Representatives. These bills provide species protection consistent with the Endangered Species-Act. The enactment of these bills will return the management of ORVs in CHNSRA to the professionals in the NPS and not leave it in the hands of the environmental extremists.
 
CCA NC needs your voice to tell Senators Burr and Dole you support Senate Bill S-3113. Tell your U. S. Representative you support House Bill HR-6233. We need bipartisan support of this bill to right the wrongs that we currently suffer under the egregious consent decree approved by Federal Judge Terrence Boyle.
 
Please pass this information along to your fishing friends in North Carolina as well as those from other states. Help us restore our access to the beautiful beaches and great surf fishing of the CHNSRA. These extremist won't stop here if we don't take action.
 
Click the link below to contact the appropriate Elected Officials on this issue.


Click the link below to log in and send your message:
http://www.votervoice.net/link/target/ccanc25099182.aspx


----- Original Message -----
From: barnacle1080@optonline.net
To: stan@fishingstop.com
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:17 PM


Stan,

A contractor sent me his newsletter and this brief bit about fishing was in it.  It's a shame that there are fewer places to take your child fishing these days compared to when we were kids.  Brookhaven Town Beach at Shoreham is now prohibiting fishing.

Message: Bill,

A great article.

It's really strange that only a handful of people are concerned enough to bitch about how outrageous this issue is.

It seems to me that our representatives don't have a clue about what we are trying to say!

Stan

This is a letter I just sent to Ken LaValle:

Kenneth P. LaValle

Room 806 Legislative Office Building

Albany, NY  12247

Dear Sir,

You probably don't remember me, but we have met on several occasions dating back to the mid '70s.  I have been running a bait and tackle store in the town of Brookhaven (Rocky Point) for over 30 years, and am ready for retirement.  In order to have a decent retirement I will be selling stock to my employees over a period of years.  However, I don't see much of a future for them in this business here on the north shore. Brookhaven, it seems, is not and never was, (since the acampora reign) fishermen friendly.  It is bad enough that miles of beautiful beaches cannot be accessed by fisherman, but every where they go on Town property they get ticketed by code enforcement.  Now, they just initiated Shoreham Town Beach as a non designated for fishing beach???  Where am I supposed to send customers?? I have fished over the entire east coast and have never seen anything like Brookhaven's total lack of regard for their tax payers that live here because they like to fish and use the beaches.



The reason that I am writing you, is I just keep going around in circles talking to counsel members that don't have a clue to what we are asking for, local papers, magazines, and customers that complain to me, but won't take the time to call the town and voice their opinions.  Since you send me email messages frequently, and this latest one has to do with veteran's benefits, I thought it funny that we can't even get to our beaches let alone get any respect.



I am a combat veteran. And I don't want to think of what I would say to somebody who tried to keep me from walking on a beach that I could have died for.



Thank you for your time,



Stanley Hentschel

Dear Mr. Hentschel:
 
Thank you for your recent e-mail.  By copy hereof, I am forwarding it to our Commissioner
of Parks Edward Morris and our Commissioner of Public Safety Anthony Gallino for their
review and response.
 
Sincerely,
Kathy Kocher

>>> <stan@fishingstop.com> 6/9/2008 2:16 PM >>>

Send Email To: Town of Brookhaven
Your Name: Stanley Hentschel
Your Email: stan@fishingstop.com
Your Number: 1-631-744-8330
Address: 53D Broadway
Rocky Point, NY 11778
Subject: beach closure-no access, tickets

 

http://www.joincca.org/eNewsletter/August 2007/Lateral Lines 0807.htm

To: Long Island Beach Buggy Association

 

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